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Email a FriendHi all, I have a bit of a fertility conundrum. My husband and I miscarried our (surprise) second child at 8 weeks on Oct 24. It was all very straightforward, and I’ve had two reasonably normal cycles since. We’re actively open to conception, and using our Creighton Model observations to figure out our most fertile days (not strict charting - we didn’t want to be obsessed with the charts like we are when we’re avoiding!). Here’s the thing: this month, I didn’t have the usual steady build-up of mucus to a noticeable peak. Based on my normal 33- to-35-day cycle, I should have been most fertile from roughly the 17th to the 24th. I had peak-type mucus (6/8KL) and the pains I get in my abdomen when I ovulate the weekend of the 14th. Then I had distinctly lubricative sensations and wet observations consistently for most of the following week, but accompanied by peak-type mucus (6KL) only once or twice at the end of the week, again with my usual ovulation pains which were at their worst on Saturday the 21st. Since Monday, my observations have been completely dry, so I assume my ‘peak day’ was Sunday the 22nd, even though I didn’t have any of my usual, obvious peak-type mucus (10KL). My husband and I have been making love more or less every two or three days - every day on the weekends - but I’m not sure if conception is even a possibility this month given my weird observations. My practitioner says she can’t help since we haven’t been strictly charting. Anyone have any insight?
Faith & Your Fertility
Posted by Danielle Bean in Marriage on Wednesday, January 25, 2012 7:00 AM
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Well, one way to know if you were fertile is if you get pregnant - which you should know in a couple of weeks. Sorry to not be any more help, but occassionally you just get a weird cycle, and really, it’s no big deal unless it happens all the time. I wouldn’t obsess over it at all, just wait and see what happens.
Sorry for your loss. There are two things that may be a problem. I had thought it was normal to have all that ovulation pain but it turned out that I had endometriosis. Also if you ovulate on day 24 then have your period on the 33rd - 35th day that would mean that your luteal phase is only 9, 10, or at most 11 days. If that is the case, then it’s too short, so maybe you should have your doctor order a blood test for progesterone levels.
I’m interested to hear what others have to say about your observations this month. I’ve had similar observations recently and also don’t like to chart strictly.
@laurajean: The waiting is the hardest part, isn’t it! I usually have quite regular cycles, if a little on the long side, so this ‘split peak’ presentation + different pattern of mucus is definitely weird to me.
@MMH: My luteal phase has been 9-11 days since my cycles came back postpartum, and our Creighton practitioner hadn’t mentioned anything about that being particularly short. In fact, my textbook says that a range of 9-17 days is normal. I will speak to my GP about a progesterone test, though - our practitioner mentioned that we might have lost our baby due to low progesterone (which she only mentioned AFTER the miscarriage, though if she were right, progesterone supplements might have saved our baby!). How were you diagnosed with endometriosis, if you don’t mind my asking? I don’t have very painful periods by any stretch of the imagination, and the ovulation pain is only a little annoying, but localised and not particularly painful either. We conceived our son ‘by accident’, too, which doesn’t seem to jive with what I’ve heard of endo and fertility complications.
From the CrM manual, it says, “...If the post-Peak phase is too short, (eight days or less in duration) this suggests that the post-ovulatory phase is not adequate to sustain a pregnancy.”
My post-peaks have historically been in the 8-12 range. I’ve gotten both HcG and progesterone supplementation ASAP after a positive test, which have come at day 12 and day 14 for my last 2 kiddos (on Dollar Store tests, no less!).
Please, do not torture yourself with whether or not progesterone “might have saved” your baby! You cannot know, without the power to turn back time and carefully chart, plus do targeted labwork. There are many other reasons for miscarriage, as you know, and I just picked up on that sentence from your post and wanted to caution you against that line of thinking. I am so sorry for your loss.
Good morning. I have a question about the Marquette method. How accurate is the ClearBlue model? Is it clear? I once bought a predictor online that showed “ferning,” but it wasn’t easy to read. It was a little tube with a magnifying glass, but it wasn’t clear. Is the ClearBlue worth the money?
The ClearBlue monitor is accurate as far as I can tell. It’s found ovulation every cycle for me. It is incredibly easy to read with L, H and P plus a little picture.
Question for those who use Marquette: the materials that came with the monitor as well as the test stick packaging insist that you’re supposed to use sticks from the same package within a single cycle (at least in sets of 10?). So what do you do when you use an odd number of sticks from a box and have leftovers? The last time this happened, I just started a new box within the middle of a cycle. But bleary-eyed decisions made at 2 am aren’t always the best, so I’m wondering what the rest of you do: Do you stick to the rule about using sticks from the same package? Or do you mix boxes so as not to waste sticks? I can’t imagine throwing away perfectly good test sticks - they’re not cheap! - but I want to get an accurate reading of my cycle, too. Thanks!
Hello! I’m interested in learning NFP, but I don’t know where to start! I’ve google searched it, but all the websites I’ve encountered are overwhelming. Does anyone have any recommendations for beginners? Thanks!
Dori,
Try the Couple to Couple League: http://www.ccli.org/
The major methods are similar for effectiveness, but differ greatly in their “culture.”
CCL is a mucus-observation/temp check/cervical check method. They put a lot of emphasis on a whole lifestyle of NFP, including vitamin supplements and other natural solutions for problems, breastfeeding, etc. Great for “semi-crunchy” types of people or those without major fertility problems; not so good if you have issues or have a hard time trusting less-science-y sounding things (not that there’s not science behind it, it’s just less the emphasis).
NaPro/Creighton model is a mucus-only method. With a full medical/surgical clinic behind it, they are *the* place to go if you have fertility/cycle problems; they are also good if you (or dh) are uncertain of the hard science - they emphasize that part all the time so that can be reassuring. It’s annoying though, if you like the back-to-nature approach, to keep hearing “NaPro Technology” every other sentence.
Marquette is mainly a fertility monitor (though they have a mucus-only protocol too) which is really good if you have a hard time reading your fertility signs. They are also entirely web-based; great if you like the anonymity of asking intimate questions to a screen instead of a person, but not if you like having a specific instructor who knows you and your particular circumstances. The cost can be an obstacle for some.
Billings is another mucus-only method, very similar in charting to Creighton but closer in culture to CCL. Dr. Billings was dedicated to developing a method that anyone could use - the blind, third-world women with no technology, etc. - and it’s one of the oldest well-established methods.
Those are the main proven methods; I’ve used different ones at different times, so maybe my observations on both the methods and the “feel” of each will be helpful in figuring out which is best for you. Sorry for posting a novel! 
One website I like a lot is http://www.nfpandmore.org/
It is based on sympto-thermal natural family planning, which to me seems the most idiot proof (sounded good for me!) and is what I use. I really like that you use multiple fertility signs (mucus and temperature and cervix position if you want) to cross-check and be more sure of your status.
It’s written by the Kippleys who used to be with Couple to Couple League but broke off on their own for some reason. Anyway, they seem to me to have solid info and they have their entire manual available for free online (they request a donation if you are able, but it is totally optional so you don’t have to base your access to the manual on your financial status).
You could also check if your local library or church has a copy of “the Art of Natural Family Planning”
Good luck!
Don’t forget to check out the Marquette Method. http://nfp.marquette.edu
I HIGHLY recommend it and you can learn online! The Marquette Method uses any combination of mucus, the Clearblue Easy Monitor or Basal Body temps, or just mucus or just the monitor. It is really geared to helping you do what works best for you and they are constantly researching NFP and giving new and better information every day.
It must be one of those days!
I was wondering what the website is that is Marquette? I found Marquette University, but I really want to get on their NFPforum! Thanks in advance for the address!
* For the others asking: I have been using the monitor for a year, and my cycles have been just wacky! So far, so good for spacing after our 1.9 year old. My cycles have been anywhere from 48 days, to 27 days…and it *seems* to be helping me. I have the Fertilescope, too, but also found it hard to read….seems like my saliva ALWAYS had ferning…
*I always use the sticks up from the current package before moving on to another box. Have you considered buying them by the 30 day pack? It’s a lot of money, but then they are in the same date and production timeframe. I have purchased them through Ebay as well as Amazon…good luck…as a funny note, I purchased the “Persona” monitor and didn’t care for how it worked. I had run out of sticks for the Clearblue, and just used the sticks from the Persona and it worked….now, I was not in my fertile phase at all, just right after cycle…
I was diagnosed when the doctor did a laprascopy after several years of not being able to get pregnant while supplementing with progesterone. I don’t have painful periods unless I drink coffee or have too much dairy or sugar, but do have mid-cycle extremely sharp pains that would make me have to stop and sit down. It took a while to check for endo that b/c I also thought that it would mean a heavy and painful period which I didn’t have. But if you got pregnant without trying then you probably don’t have it.
My luteal phases without medication were always 9,10 and at most 11 days and the napro-doctors said that they should be 13-14 days. If it’s low, then you should try to take the progesterone as soon as you find -like day 16 or 17 after ovulation.
I have PCOS, I follow (very loosely, as we’re not charting at all right now) Creighton.
I am 11dpo, -hpt, but nausea & a sensation of letting down in my breast.
My nausea is moderate.. I had a +opk on 14th, and we’ve made love before, day of, and just after..
I am so discouraged. My PMs the last few cycles I have had nausea, but this has been more than before. Word of wisdom!?? Please?
My kids really want me to have another!!
A negative test at 11 dpo isn’t late enough to tell for sure, I think. I’d wait a few days more and take another test (although I’m sure the waiting is hard!). With each of my pregnancies, I didn’t experience nausea until 4-6 weeks, but everyone’s different. I hope you get the result you want!
Update: Thank you to the ladies who helped last week regarding thyroid issues. I apparently have goiter and am now being sent to a specialist. Its good to at least know that I’m not crazy and that a solution may be on the horizon. Thank you!
My fiance and I are getting married two weeks from Saturday… we are so so so excited! But this morning confirmed my temperature rise, so I’m now in Phase 3 and will be tail end of 1 and beginning 2 on the wedding day and through our honeymoon.
We waited until now to get married so we could be in a place to be open to life. We have no serious reasons to avoid, but we were hoping to have a few months to settle into married life before getting pregnant.
So now we are in the, should we, shouldn’t we trying to decide what to do. Neither of us wants to wait any longer than we have, but we are trying to prayerfully consider our options.
I would appreciate any advice from anyone who did/didn’t abstain on their wedding and honeymoon. Was it worth it? Either way. Thanks in advance!
My husband and I DID abstain on our honeymoon, which was over 25 years ago!! The rest of the story, though, is that we conceived my daughter about 3 weeks later. Yes, we knew we were “taking a chance” at the time. We also had three more children within about 7 years of her birth. Now, with 25 years of hindsight and being ready for a family at the time, we both laugh that we should have made the most of our honeymoon and should have thrown abstinence out the window! Just my two cents’ worth! Your honeymoon only comes once!
My husband and I probably had “decent” reasons to postpone when we got married - i.e. he had just graduated and didn’t have a job yet, finances were very up in the air, etc. We decided to just go with it anyway. While we were definitely in a fertile phase for our honeymoon, we didn’t get pregnant that month - the next month, instead, and have now been married a bit over 3 1/2 years and have a lovely, happy, healthy energetic 2 1/2 year old.
So I can’t answer the “pros” of having a few months to adjust to married life without pregnancy, but can tell you my experience in getting pregnant right away! It definitely made the first year of our marriage kind of wild, a bit rocky.. we were adjusting to being married and working out a lot of extended family expectations type of stuff, and I was wildly hormonal as well. There were a lot of tears and a fair number of heated discussions, and I did think many a time, “why did I get myself into this, again?” But after having made it through that year, things have been smooth sailing ever since, and in a lot of ways it was nice to get all the “big” transitions out of the way, right away. We never had a chance to get too used to it being “just the two of us” before there were three of us to consider. Plus, we didn’t have to worry about whether to avoid or not… you can’t get any more pregnant once you’re pregnant 
We ended up with 2+ years of lactational amenorrhea after our daughter was born, so it was a pretty nice perk to just not really have to *think* too much about family planning for the first few years of our marriage.
All in all, I definitely think having a baby right off was a huge blessing; God provided, amply, for her and our every need, and I know we grew a lot as a couple during that time. We had, however, dated for three years before getting married, so we’d had time to really get to know each other *well* prior to marriage; I might have felt differently about having some “time” if that hadn’t been the case. And it was good for us to pretty much immediately have to get used to the financial realities of what life as a family, and not just two-incomes no children, would entail. I think it would have been a lot harder to adjust to the constraining realities of being a parent (much less free time together, ability to travel, much tighter finances, etc) if we’d had a longer time to get used to those luxuries.
Just my two cents, though! I also think it is TOTALLY normal to feel a little apprehensive about getting pregnant, no matter how open to life you are “mentally”.. it is a BIG change, life-altering, even, and takes most people a bit to wrap their mind around and accept. For me, getting married didn’t feel like a big change - but having a baby changed me inside and out.
8.5 years ago, we had reasons to abstain that many would have discerned to be “just.”
After much discussion and prayer, my husband spoke these words to me that must have been inspired, b/c they simultaneously calmed me completely and flooded me with respect for my husband-to-be:
“If we do, in fact, conceive on our wedding night, then I cannot help but think of the tremendous graces that we will be given to care for that child.”
7 months later, when we did conceive, we still had jitters to conquer, but were confident in the Father’s will.
Congratulations! I was in your shoes almost two years ago. My cycles were very regular, so I “saw it coming” (in as much as that is possible) a couple of months beforehand. My husband and I decided then, a couple of months out, that we would not abstain, and a great deal of peace followed that decision for me. My mother suffered from infertility, and part of me wondered whether I might be passing up my only opportunity to be a mother (totally don’t want to come across as negative to people who do choose to abstain on their honeymoons! I just worry a lot). My husband had a really awful job at the time, so we had good reason to abstain, but their was so much freedom in just leaving it in God’s hands. We did not conceive on our honeymoon, then really hunkered down and practiced nfp for the next few months and conceived seven months into our marriage (still at what would be considered by most to be a bad time, but is there ever a perfect time? It all worked out so perfectly, God always provides.) I love the saying “every baby brings a loaf of bread” and it is so true. So, we had a few months to settle in to married life, which was helpful, but I wouldn’t trade our time with the baby. God bless you in your married life!
I think my peak day was my wedding day or the day after. We really thought we needed to wait, so we did actually - so it was four or five days into the honeymoon that we waited. It was hard, but, we figured we had waited three years already, a few more days wouldn’t kill us, and we definitely enjoyed being able to be closer now that we were married than we had before! We ended up conceiving our first kiddo about one year later, after a job transfer and a cross-country move (which weren’t in the works at the time of the wedding, but we knew they’d be coming pretty soon down the road). I am glad we waited, although it was a little challenging. OTOH, my brother and SIL decided they didn’t have a great reason to wait, and their first was born nine months after their wedding. It can be done, just have to make the decision together either way
My precious honeymoon baby was born 1 week shy of our 9 month wedding anniversary. Surely he was conceived on our wedding night. We were 27 and 30 when he was born. Our thoughts at the time we whether we should wait 6 months or not to conceive.
Parenthood is a lifetime journey and I do believe a certain strength can be gained when a couple has time together in their married life before having kids. We had a strong foundation so we were able to endure the stress of getting married and having so much to adjust to. I see other couples that postponed pregnancy and I see that that was good for them and their marriage. There really is no right journey. Some couples postponed kids and down the road had marriage troubles. Some couples had many kids right away and had marriage troubles. Some in both groups did just fine. Just know that once you have kids you are in it for life:)
And yes that honeymoon baby is a very precious gift to both of us. So are all his siblings that followed soon after. There are time however when I stop and wonder what it is like to have couple time together before kids? I am amazed when I meet other couples who did not have kids for a couple years or more. I see that the time they spent together was good and built up their marriage. If you are young you have many years to have kids so keep that in mind too. If you have waited until your wedding to have sex a couple more weeks is nothing:)
We’re only 9 months into our marriage, so I don’t have the benefit of much hindsight, but I can say that we abstained on our honeymoon, and we survived. We’re still avoiding, but our whole attitude has changed. We were TOTALLY not prepared for kids then, though I suppose we’d have had just the right amount of time to get used to idea if we had conceived - over the course of the past 8 months or so, we’ve gone from utter terror at the very thought of pregnancy to “well, it wouldn’t be the WORST thing” to me thinking about babies all the time and DH saying “I wish we were in a better place to be able to have kids now.” We’re being very conservative at the moment, until I get some health issues ironed out, but will hopefully be able to be more open soon.
I was in phase 1 when we got married, so there was no need to abstain on our honeymoon, but we returned home to a very long phase 2 (I think we abstained for about three weeks trying to figure out what was going on) and then said “forget it” and I ended up pregnant. We were elated and terrified all at once… and then I miscarried the baby before we even worked up the courage to tell our parents (dh was in graduate school and we knew none of the parents were going to think it wise). That miscarriage made me FAR more serious about “serious reasons” for abstaining and I was thankful to get pregnant a few months later (on my first real cycle after the miscarriage). We’re now six years in with three wonderful children and I haven’t charted a day since the miscarriage. Parenting is the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but also the most wonderful, and it’s been such a fulfillment of marriage—I really can’t imagine having waited. Fertility is a gift and children are a gift!
My DH and I got married during what was (I think) a really, really long Phase 3 so abstaining wasn’t an issue for us (we also were totally up for conceiving, so we wouldn’t have abstained anyways). But, we did end up getting pregnant about a month later. Even though we were open to conception, I’m not gonna lie - going immediately into pregnancy after just getting married was not without its challenges. I went from feeling like a sexy bride to feeling nauseous, unattractive, and uninterested in sex (this persisted throughout my whole pregnancy, btw, and even got worse, i.e. painful, with breastfeeding…my beautiful baby girl is now 7 months old and it’s finally starting to get better). I’m blessed to have a patient and loving DH so it didn’t really cause any real marriage problems, but was just a tough time for me personally adjusting to all of these changes. Now, of course, I am absolutely IN LOVE with my baby and I love my life—I’ve never been happier and I wonder every day what I ever did to deserve such a life of blessings. So, I don’t know, it’s a mixed bag.
I must say I’m a bit jealous. I would have loved to have conceived on our honeymoon, but instead, I was rolling around in bed with a heating pad and doped up on Midol from my menstrual cramps. I literally started my period the second we got to the hotel room after the wedding reception. Needless to say, it was not the honeymoon we had hoped for. We still had a good time watching TV and cuddling and eating chocolate. Lots and lots of chocolate.
But seriously, your honeymoon only comes once. I would only abstain if you feel the cons of a pregnancy at this time would outweigh the pros of making love on your honeymoon.
OH Sarah… Congrats! I wanted to just tell you congrats and that whatever you decide to do it will be the right decision. The only thing I would add is that if you guys do decide to use the very fertile part and you do conceive- you can’t go back. Everyone has a different experience with pregnancy, and while I love being pregnant- I am nauseous for quite some time… I would not have wanted that in the first few months of our marriage. I was at the end of my cycle when we were married so we didn’t have to wait, but we certainly would have if I was fertile.
Also know that while you can conceive up to 5 days before ovulation- the chances are very low, like <15% of actually conceiving if you are >2 days before your actual peak day. If you have several cycles of charting down you can look at your past cycles and see when you have ovulated in the past and know how close to ovulation you really are and then take the chance from there. I guess what I’m saying is that if you are in the very beginning of Phase2- you’re chances are low that you would conceive from wedding night and then you can just abstain until post ovulatory phase. Just something to think about.
Have a wonderful magical and blessed wedding day!
I have never used NFP, but I want to try it with the assistance of an iPhone app. Any suggestions? I know there are a few different ones. Thank you!
I’ve been using fertility flower. I looked at several and have used this for 1.5 cycles. So far, so good! It’s not actually an app, but none of the apps were quite what I wanted. Fertilityflower.com boasts full accessibility on the iPhone, and I have found this to be true. Hope this helps!
I like Period Tracker. Actually, I tried the free ‘lite’ version first and wanted a little more, so for a couple dollars, I got it. The app helps you track moods, weight, mucus, temperature, and several other things. It charts for you and calculates your fertile days. I used it to get pregnant and we have a happy, healthy nine-month-old.
Has anyone taken progesterone? My NFP only OBGYN just prescribed me a low dose of progesterone to take a week before my period and during my period. Here are some quick facts:
- I’m 32
- Have always had regular/ normal periods before my daughter was born
- Didn’t have a period for 10 months after my daughter was born
- Upon the return of my period, six months ago, I started experiencing migraines, nausea and vomiting during my periods to the point where I can’t get out of bed for 1-2 days
- Just stopped nursing my 16 month daughter last week during my worst period ever
My goal is to have “comfortable” migraine/ vomiting free periods and get pregnant with baby #2 sometime this Summer.
Any personal anecdotes and/ or advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I’ve taken progesterone with some of my pregnancies, though not for cycle pain. PPVI Institute, where I was going at the time, prescribed HCG injections for my PMS and it was hugely helpful. That was some years ago though (I haven’t had nearly such major issues since surgery for endometriosis and my first successful pregnancy), and maybe they are just suggesting progesterone now (which wouldn’t mess with home pg tests) or maybe it’s unrelated issues. Anyway, my HCG was a total godsend, so I’d give the progesterone a try for sure - those hormones make a huge difference. Just make sure dh does some good massaging of the injection site since that can get pretty sore! I know it sounds odd requesting a buttock rub, but it really makes a big difference to do the shot s-l-o-w-l-y and then really rub it in. Good luck!
I am not sure anyone here is from a developing country, but I wanted to ask for any good cycle monitor that I can easily purchase. Something not so expensive and reliable is welcomed.
I am 26 and never monitored myself, but I’m getting married next 3 months and would love to get my specifics as the much I know now is that I have a long cycle of 32-35 days.
My cycle is also deeply affected by shocks like loss of family, anxiety, uncertainty etc and it borders me, especially because my sister has suffered from what has been diagnosed as fat-induced amenorrhea. Anybody here with such characteristics?
And I’m also wondering about abstaining during my honeymoon. Having never slept with my fiance, I’m truly looking forward to it and wondering why wait. But I’m a student and would love to get things settled before I take in.
I just wanted to give a plug to Napro technology for those with fertility issues. It is THE best thing to happen to my husband and me since marrying. We got married when I was 39 and we have been pregnant twice and miscarried both times. Napro was recommended to us by a NFP teacher (she had to use it herself and was blessed with at least 2 children because of it)! It has helped my husband and me with a whole host of problems and we are healthier now because of it. I had a moderate amount of endometriosis that was lazered out and a polyp on my uterus that was removed. I used to think that spotting before my period was normal. No it wasn’t! It indicated low progesterone. Brown spotting meant I had an infection that was sexually transmitted, (not std, just infection) and both my husband and me had to take an antibiotic because of it. Most of my pms has cleared up along with having no more spotting. I have so much wonderful things to say about Napro, I could go on forever! I know my husband and I can get pregnant because we have before, it’s carrying the babies to term that was our problem. At any rate, we wanted children right away quite simply bc of my age, but God had other plans. I dated my husband for a little less than 2 years before marrying him, but I really got to know him more since marriage. I am grateful for the time we have spent together, just us two (plus a dog) and now feel more ready for a baby. Well, I am 43 and know that if God wills it we will see our baby on this Earth and soon!
Hi Teresa, can I ask you about your spotting before your period? My last two cycles (both post-miscarriage) I’ve had brown spotting for a day or two before the bleeding kicked in normally. Was yours similar? I posted above about my weird cycles post-loss; my short post-peak phase might indicate lower levels of progesterone, but I hadn’t thought about this new-to-me pre-period spotting indicating the same.
Holly, in case Teresa doesn’t see your post, from the CrM manual (p.44) it says, “...if premenstrual spotting exists (three or more days of light, very light or brown bleeding prior to menstruation), this is highly suggestive of low progesterone levels during that post-ovulatory phase of the cycle.”
Hope this helps.
Holly,
It could very well be low progesterone as StephC suggested or it could be an indication of a sexually transmitted infection (not disease). Are you getting help from a Napro technology physician and/or a Creighton model Practitioner? They would be the best ones to discuss this with. I will keep you in prayer. I have to say I have come across most OB/Gyn’s that still use the Calendar method and have very little clue about infertility issues. That has been my experience, at any rate.
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