This is me too! Pre-this baby, I had an IUD (I can’t be on the pill because of migraines), and while I am a moderate, wishy-washy Catholic, I am considering using NFP. Right now we use condoms. No evangelization needed - I know why birth control is bad, but until NFP is reliable for me, I won’t be using it.

I am nursing an 8 month old still round the clock and co-sleeping, and no sign of my period. When we were TTC, I didn’t produce a lot of CM, so couldn’t use that as an indicator of ovulation, and I have no idea what my cervix feels like. Also, because of the co-sleeping, my waking times are irregular, as baby likes to get up at 4 am and nurse on and off until 5:45 am. Any ideas on which method or strategy would be good for me, once my period returns?

To both of you: Have you looked into the Marquette Method yet? Visit http://nfp.marquette.edu for more information. They have a breastfeeding protocol, which is very effective. They also have online charting for you to use.

I learned NFP while my youngest was 3 months nursing around the clock.  It, as NFP instructors will say, is a challenging time to learn NFP but it’s doable!!  I met with my Creighton-Model instructor very often at the beginning, maybe twice a month, and then we met monthly for up to a year after I first started learning.  I would HIGHLY recommend this.  Yes, it sounds like A LOT to meet with someone for so long but it really gives you the CONFIDENCE you need to use this method effectively.  It is huge to have a knowledgable person analyze your charts and correct your charting mistakes.  I had mucous almost ALL the time while breastfeeding and she was able to really help me learn the difference between the fertility mucous and discharge.  My advice is, get an instructor you can work with on-going and don’t give up!  Like anything new, things will and do get easier.

I second the Marquette method. It’s been much more reliable than other methods post-partum. My fourth is now 18 months old.

Ditto to kk, that’s when I learned Creighton, too. Definitely needed the instructor.

Me too.  I was going to ask this.  One more question I have that goes along with it…I only knew the sympo thermal method years ago and temps were important…with my screwed up sleep right now does the Marquette then work better?

The Marquette method would work better in this regard. The only slight difficulty I had with wacky sleeping is that for an accurate reading from the monitor, your urine has to be concentrated—they suggest first thing in the morning and at least 4 hours since last using the bathroom. It’s not a big deal, but if you want to test at 7, for example, and you’re up nursing at 4:30, you need to remember either not to use the bathroom or to save your urine in a cup for testing later. However, you could be up 10 times a night and still get a good reading from the monitor, provided you’re not using the bathroom all the time.

I second (third? fourth?) the Marquette method. It has been awesome for us in the post-partum time (almost 6 months now) and is so easy to use, has a much more flexible window for testing than the STM which we used in the past as well. Their website is so helpful - you can chart online, and the doctor and nurse that run the program out of Marquette answer any question you post in their forum so quickly (usually within less than 24 hours!). I can’t say enough about how great this method has been for us - so much more reliable given my fertility signs than the STM or cervical mucus methods we used in the past (Billings).

Just a note about the leaders of the MM method website: they’re both nurses, but one has a PhD in nursing (hence the “Dr.”). However, they do have access to NFP MDs, do its still a great resource.

Mary,
I am not trying to down play the struggles we all have when nursing and trying to read our signs etc. but your comment of “wishy-washy Catholic” and justifying using birth control raised a huge red flag for me.
What is a wishy-washy Catholic? Your definition further below is not Catholic at all. This is not an attack, but if you are fully aware of the Catholic Church teachings on birth control etc. then your are committing a sin with full knowledge, thus in mortal sin.
There can’t be a wish washy Catholic when it comes to this topic. Am I wrong to say, you should not call yourself Catholic at all for this is a core standing/belief.

Megan - i appreciate your comment. A few details:
1 - I was raised Catholic, turned away, and only recently came back from the faith.
2 - I know a LOT of good Catholics (I’m a teacher who works closely with our Catholic board) and NONE of them use NFP. I know ONE woman, in person, who uses NFP. Lots of them believe gays should have the right to marry, lots of them would like to see women in leadership roles, even in the deaconate. The Catholic blogosphere is over-represented with devout Catholics who are passionate about their faith, and thus, tend to get it “right” more often. I think the “all-or-nothing” approach is dangerous and is the reason why sinners stay away from church. I’m not saying the church shouldn’t have standards, but I am saying that given that over 90% of Catholic women use contraception, surely all of these women aren’t going to hell? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/07/catholics-support-contraception-mandate_n_1261046.html
3 - I’m from Canada, which has a slightly different political climate, in which gay marriage is legal and in which insurance programs have always paid for birth control.
4 - I believe passionately in the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, I believe in the holy spirit, I believe in so much of the catechism. Not everyone can be perfect, and at least I’m being honest with myself.

Faith is a journey—not all of us get it right from the start. There would be no point in lying to you and pretending to make myself seem better than I am, or pretending to be in a different place than where I am (emotionally, spiritually, geographically, politically). That being said, I’m here, admitting where I am, and seeking information to make better choices in the future. As I’ve said before…baby steps.

PS - I’ve confessed all this to a priest, for what it’s worth. And I’m pretty sure the core belief of Catholicism is Jesus and the Mass he instituted to bring us closer to Him and to God.

Mary,
I am not saying that it’s all or nothing approach when it comes to being Catholic.
Yet, there are some core teachings that we must follow in order to receive the Body of Christ. Yes, baby steps are great and I think it is wonderful that you are coming back to the Church. However, most of what you stated you believe and support does not support our Catholic faith. Going to confession and receiving absolution is fantastic and is what we are supposed to do if we have committed a mortal sin. However, (I am not implying you are doing this at all!) if we go to confession and intend to commit the sin again on purpse, it’s not forgiven.
I was just stating a fact, that one cannot take artificial birth control with full knowledge of the Church’s teaching on contraception and say they are Catholic. Thus, it is a mortal sin. I am always a little irked about statistics and trying to say something must be right if the majorities are doing it. Just because 90 percent of women are using artificial birth control, does not make it acceptable. (I however, also ponder in how many know the Catholic Church teaching against utilizing contraception? I converted to Catholicism and was told it was okay to use birth control by a priest. Luckily, my husband (then fiancé) cleared that up fast). Yes, there are those women who do not know that it’s wrong and may be part of those statistics.

P.S. I truly am not trying to attack you, promise. I sound so harsh, but what I’m saying is right (please, anyone correct me if I made a mistake in what I wrote, for I too make mistakes).
Also, to be Catholic does not mean you have to use NFP. Some choose not to use NFP at all or if some choose to use NFP they may not use it to abstain from having children but to be more aware of their body.

In one of the comments it was stated something to the effect that about 90% of Catholic women use contraception. I wonder how many of the 90% use it because they are afraid that their husbands will be upset if they don’t.

Meghan - thanks for your reply! We may not agree 100%, but I know your heart is in the right place and that you want the best for me (and others like me). I certainly agree with your assertion that just because everybody is doing something doesn’t make it right.

For a sin to be mortal, the sinner must know it is seriously wrong.  It is not enough to be TOLD it is seriously wrong, one has to KNOW it, in one’s heart.  Only God reads hearts.  I know my heart and I KNOW it is seriously wrong to use birth control.  If I, the person typing this right here, Michelle Reitemeyer, use birth control, I have committed a mortal sin, because I know it.  I can not judge the heart of any other person, so I can not say that a particular individual has committed a mortal sin, only that a particular action is a mortal sin.  I’m really unhappy with a tone here that is lecturing a woman who admits she is taking baby steps.  She needs support and encouragement and education, resources…not a heavy stick over the head.  Mary, I am a sinner too.  I have used birth control in my past.  I went to communion in a state of mortal sin, even though I didn’t know that that was a sin and didn’t even know I was in a state of mortal sin.  I had a priest tell me, “I don’t know what God is going to do with you” when I made a full confession…thank goodness, I did get absolution for my truly contrite soul and I knew, with my whole being, that what God would do with me is LOVE me.  If you seek the truth, truly seek the truth and not try to make the truth fit what you want it to be, you will find the truth.  God bless you on your journey.

Just chiming in here… but isn’t a person who procures an abortion automatically excommunicated?  I’ve read the planned parenthood stats that say 28% of the abortions are performed on Catholics. I’m sure they know it’s a mortal sin. I think the issue is that people that were baptised, and maybe even raised as catholics but aren’t practicing or believing still call themselves Catholic in the surveys. 
I must be wrong about mortal sin, because I base it more on the result of the sin than on whether or not the person deeply believes it’s wrong in their heart.  If the BCP does cause early abortions and someone unknowingly uses it, it seems so much worse than doing something that has no impact on anyone else but the sinner knows is wrong.  If I differ with the church on this teaching does that make me a wishy-washy Catholic too?

Michelle, you are so right.
I am not trying to lecture or even hit this woman over the head with a stick. I was trying to make it clear about the actions being a mortal sin, but want to thank you for saying it even better, especially about knowing it ones heart.
Some women receive communion in a state of mortal sin and don’t even know it. I was trying to make it clear that I was NOT talking about those women.
It’s difficult to be charitable and clear on these forums and I apologize. Yes, sometimes we are even clear on the Church’s teaching and that does not make our struggles easier. In fact, it makes these struggles even more difficult! That is why I want to say I am sorry and that the baby steps are just as important!!!
Mary please forgive me if I was too harsh and I don’t want to lead you away from being Catholic, for it is the One True Faith.
I am truly thankful for Confession and receiving absolution (there is that battle of if I confessed past sins etc. and the trust/relief of knowing that if I truly forgot to confess a sin even in the past, I was forgiven).
Before I was married, I was on birth control too and it was not until I met my husband and contemplated becoming Catholic did I learn that it was a mortal sin. It was something I was told to do by parents when I got to college because I may choose to become sexually active etc. and it helped with cramps. It makes it even more difficult to be told not to use, when you know how easily it can work in preventing a pregnancy or not having period cramps.
Michelle, your words are so true and you are right when it comes to truly knowing in one’s heart. For even though we may know something is wrong, there is that internal battle that still takes place.

MMH I am little confused, could you please clarify ... If the BCP does cause early abortions and someone unknowingly uses it, it seems so much worse than doing something that has no impact on anyone else but the sinner knows is wrong.  Thanks.

Mary, thank you for your honesty.  Also your bravery, as it takes courage to post all this!

I am reminded of that beautiful line in the Mass, where the priest prays for all the dead “whose faith [God] alone can know.”  God alone sees what is in our hearts.  I would also hazard a guess that God may be just a teensy bit more forgiving and understanding than we are.

This is for Mary,

I too live in Canada, and unfortunately a lot of our priests and Bishops have not stood up against contraception. Just because a bunch of ‘good’ Catholics use birth control doesn’t make them right. I know you are just coming back into the church (praise be to God!) so you may not be completely aware of why the Church teaches that contraception cuts us off from the Lord. I pray that you keep your open mind and keep continuing on your journey. Take a peak at the Catechism, or perhaps try a few other confessors? And remember, just because our legal system says it is okay, doesn’t mean that it is morally okay. I don’t think that we should be paying for abortions, but our tax payer money does! And unfortunately Mr. Harper believes the issue is closed even though a woman can abort her baby right up until it is born. Remember Catholic Quebec? Where are they now? And when Cardnal Oulette spoke up against abortion and gay marriage, what happened? The media crucified him and very few Bishops stood up for him.

Thanks, Patricia. I get it, I really and truly get it. But I have a long long past with unhealthy sexuality. When I say wishy-washy Catholic, I mean it: I’d like women in the priesthood, have gay friends who I’d like to see married, although I am pro-life, I don’t believe in legislating against abortion, the whole yard. (And please don’t feel obligated to go into detail on the Catechism for those aspects. I understand the Church’s position, and have spent a great deal of my mat leave reading up on it!) I completely understand the logical arguments against birth control and God’s plan, which is part of the reason that I am considering NFP (aside from the hormonal aspects and environmental impacts). So, for me to go all the way to the other side is a big jump to make in a short period of time. Baby steps, as it were. Also, I used mirena, which is the low-dose hormone IUD, which works to suppress ovulation as well. As I said, baby steps. Be patient with me.

that actually might have something to do with the cervical mucus problem - the hormones in artificial contraception, including mirena, cause premature aging of cervical crypts which messes up your mucus observations (and often fertility)

this details artificial hormones effects on the cervix:

http://www.naturalfamilyplanning.ie/mucus/effects-of-contraception/

Praying for you, Mary!

Thanks, all! To clarify, I have been off Mirena for over 2 years now, but that is an interesting point re: CM. I think the Marquette method might be a good fit for me, for now, until I get my period back, at least!

the farther away from the artificial hormone use, the more likely recovery is, but it actually depends on how long you were on it to begin with (and if you ever had other artificial hormone use prior to the IUD - pill, patch, ring, etc), because the research indicates that longer term usage makes the damage more likely to be irreversible.

obviously i can’t see your cervix and tell you,  but its just something to consider when starting to track mucus observations.  in addition, if you DO end up having a not a lot of mucus issue, before chalking it up to that, i would try Marilyn Shannon’s recommendations for that issue in Fertility Cycles and Nutrition (which is the most amazing book EVER)

http://www.amazon.com/Fertility-Cycles-Nutrition-Marilyn-Shannon/dp/0926412345

Thanks for the info, Lina!

The timing stinks! We’ve spent one night away from our children (although then it was one child) in the almost-9 years we’ve had kids, so I understand. Look at it this way - you can fill up your time with lots of romantic, fun things and build up to an exciting luteal phase reunion when you get home!

And maybe it will turn out you won’t be ovulating the entire time, and you’ll get lucky!

Vent away…. that’s how I feel as well! The only time I truly seem to want to be intimate with my husband is during my fertile time, and yet at this point in my life I cannot handle more kiddos! This is so TOUGH! I completely understand wanting that freedom with your spouse when your kid free - which as you said is basically never!!!! I’m interested to see what others say!

Joy,
Be strong!  We had a night away from the kids (expect the 1 yr. old), and rolled the dice on our anniversary.  We’ll soon we’ll have 4, which is ok, but with the oldest one 4, AHHHHHH…..I’m going to go crazy!  So from one wife to another, abstain!

I’ve had one night away with my husband in the last 2 years, and that night I was at the worst of my period.  I sympathize!  Complaining is allowed, but only for 5 minutes. 

I read your post and laughed!  TMI Alert!  Other than our honeymoon, just about every single time my hubby and I have gone on vacation, with or without our kids, I have had my period!  We have been married 8 years.  Doesn’t matter how we plan it, with my now crazy cycles, it always seems to come along with us.

i think the marquette would be good for all the time, not just postpartum! (esp after you make that fertility monitor investment).

we’ve used the STM with CCL, but if we ever have reason to avoid again, i’m strongly drawn to Marquette for the peace of mind it feels like the monitor would give.  plus, you can add in mucus and temp signs with the monitor, so its like a great combo of all.

they have a PP protocol as well.

the downside, esp for me coming from CCL, is that you dont get that personal connection - ie. someone to call slash run to when you have questions on how to interpret, etc.  they do have online support, which i’ve heard is very good, but i like that personal element.

We just began the Marquette Method, and highly recommend it.  It is clear, the website and forum are extremely helpful and I think it is one of the best methods for both those who want to avoid pregnancy, and those who wish to achieve.  I will pray for you as you continue your re-conversion to Catholicism.  I know I was exactly where you are not so many years ago, but the grace of God and the Holy Spirit have led my heart back into union with all the teachings of our Church.  Go figure!    But truly, it is an amazing journey, full of many “baby steps.”  Enjoy, and best of luck with NFP.

We have been using the Marquette Method and so far have been really happy with it.  We where using the CCL method and I got pregnant so we switched after our son was born.  It easy pretty fool proof as long as you follow the rules.  The website it GREAT!!  Very helpful.  It has given us the peace of mind for now because we need to avoid because I have a 2 year old and a 7 month old and have blood pressure problems that need to be fixed before we can TTC again.

Not for the first time, I wish there was a “like” button to click. How funny! And I love the euphemism he uses. My husband uses the phrase “red days”—referring to the color used for charting, not to, well, you know… Why do men have such a hard time saying the word “period”?

Like!  Really like “womanlies”.  Love the idea that your ovaries were watching that calendar.  I don’t think my husband calls it anything.  He just waits for the info.  Or says things like “How are you?” but with a strange, ominous look.

Oh my goodness, Michelle Reitemeyer, the kids are wondering what I am laughing at! “How are you?” but with a strange, ominous look.—I love it.

My husband knows which way the wind is blowing by how I’m acting—gets pretty brutal around here.  Also, the interesting snacks clue him in—chocolate covered pretzels anyone?

I haven’t used it, but I was curious, so I looked at the website. It looks like it works by monitoring temperature, which is pretty unreliable when you’re up with the baby all the time. The FAQ section of the website notes that you must have at least 3 consecutive hours of sleep to get a reliable reading. Maybe your 2 month old is sleeping better than my kids ever did, but it’s something to consider.

My wife has used the Ladycomp for the last five years or so to avoid pregnancy, and it has worked very satisfactorily.  She was not nursing during this time and had pretty consistent sleep cycles, so any variation arising from lack of sleep was not an issue for us.  My observations about the unit are this: 1. There has been no pregnancy in five years, which was not the case with NFP.  2. The user interface is not terribly easy to negotiate or intuitive to program initially, but so long as you have the user manual in front of you it isn’t insurmountable.  Once it is programmed and set up the only thing you will need to do is change the alarm time (unless you get up every day at exactly the same time), and that isn’t difficult.  3. It is programmed to err on the side of safety.  In our case, this has meant on occasion that as many as 16 straight days have been calculated as days when pregnancy could occur.  This is obviously bunk, but you can understand why the manufacturer would rather be safe than be sued.  My understanding is that the unit will not return a “safe” calculation until the temperature after ovulation has dropped to a certain level, and it won’t budge on that point.  Most cycles the “red days” are 8-12 days.  “Green days” include menstrual cycle.  4. We had to replace the thermometer a couple of years ago as it developed a short in the cord.  5. It is very easy to use.  The alarm goes off in the morning, you put the thermometer probe in your mouth and push a button to tell the unit to take the temperature, and it signals you when it is done.  Whole thing takes maybe a minute or minute-and-a-half.

All in all I would say that it has been much easier and more accurate than the mucous observation and charting my wife used prior to buying this unit.  The downside is that it is rather expensive, but other than replacing the thermometer probe there has been no ongoing expense to operate it.  Once we decided that our four children were enough, the cost of the unit seemed negligible compared to the cost of another child.  We bought ours used on ebay, and paid about 60% of the price of a new unit, so that might be an option for you.

Hope this helps.

Jim,

Thank you so much for taking the time to talk about the monitor. I found your reply very helpful. And the eBay idea is one I had not considered!