What a tough situation. I find that sometimes just saying the Lord’s Prayer—-Thy will be done—gives me some peace with a difficult decision. Prayers coming for you today.

Hi Anon,
I will hold you in a prayer, because this is a tough situation.  My husband and I went through the same thing, except *I* was the one who was afraid of more, and he was pushing to have “just one more”.  So, we did.  This new one is a joy, and I would never go back to not having everyone we have been given by God.
But, with that said, my husband is not the same father to the younger ones that he was for the older ones.  He has to work a bunch more overtime, doesn’t play with them, or parent them really at ALL.  I am pretty much on my own, even though this is what “HE WANTED” .  And now?  He wants “just one more”.  Ugh…here we go again.
We are the same age as you both are, and I believe children are beautiful blessings, too.  But babies grow up, and they need guidance and time and love and all of the things parents need to give if they are going to make it to heaven.
I want God’s will to be done, so if I’m called to have another, I will pray for strength for that.  But, if God has decided this is it for now, I will do the best job as Mommy for the souls I am watching over right now, and not long for what is not meant to be….
God bless you

Part of parenting also includes listening to your spouse and how much they can handle. Having financial concerns is a valid point and should be acknowledged.  God will provide can be taken in many different ways.  Some live on gov’t assistance and have as many kids as they want because “God” is providing.  Some live in a great deal of stress and turmoil financially trying to figure out how it is God is going to provide.  We can’t just assume God is going to keep the money rolling in. I have known many devout families who live or lived in pretty dire straights and it is not for lack of faith on their part.  As Catholics we often say it does not cost that much to raise children.  The reality is that is does cost alot to raise kids.  I am just thinking about basic needs not extravagant ones.

As for God deciding how many kids we have.  I don’t think God has a specific number in mind and that if we do not have X number of kids we are not living in God’s will.  God honors our free choice and our ability to determine when we are fertile or not fertile.  It is not something we do not understand:  God has given us the ability to decide if we want to conceive a child or not and we are very much an integral part of the equation of having more kids.  I’m confused that someone thinks anyone who thinks this way is giving any less of their life to God if they decide prayerfully not to conceive more children.

Is it possible that no matter how many children you have you will always reach a point when the youngest gets to be a certain age that you will have to deal with the emptiness you might feel inside no longer having a baby and reaching the end of your child bearing years?

In my opinion, the spouse that does not want to have another child wins the discussion.  You have a great gift in your 4 kids.  Why do you think #5 would bring more fulfillment?

Part of parenting also includes listening to your spouse and how much they can handle. Having financial concerns is a valid point and should be acknowledged.  God will provide can be taken in many different ways.  Some live on gov’t assistance and have as many kids as they want because “God” is providing.  Some live in a great deal of stress and turmoil financially trying to figure out how it is God is going to provide.  We can’t just assume God is going to keep the money rolling in. I have known many devout families who live or lived in pretty dire straights and it is not for lack of faith on their part.  As Catholics we often say it does not cost that much to raise children.  The reality is that is does cost alot to raise kids.  I am just thinking about basic needs not extravagant ones.

As for God deciding how many kids we have.  I don’t think God has a specific number in mind and that if we do not have X number of kids we are not living in God’s will.  God honors our free choice and our ability to determine when we are fertile or not fertile.  It is not something we do not understand:  God has given us the ability to decide if we want to conceive a child or not and we are very much an integral part of the equation of having more kids.  I’m confused that someone thinks anyone who thinks this way is giving any less of their life to God if they decide prayerfully not to conceive more children.

Is it possible that no matter how many children you have you will always reach a point when the youngest gets to be a certain age that you will have to deal with the emptiness you might feel inside no longer having a baby and reaching the end of your child bearing years?

In my opinion, the spouse that does not want to have another child wins the discussion.  You have a great gift in your 4 kids.  Why do you think #5 would bring more fulfillment?

I’m sorry it got submitted twice.  It said that I did not submit the word exactly as it appeared so I assumed it did not post

When my husband and I didn’t agree on having more children, our priest counseled us that the “no” has to prevail, when the “no” is stronger than the yes.  Yes, by all means, pray for your marriage and your husband, and pray for peace and acceptance.

Anon, I hate to say this but there are some red flags in your desire to have more kids.  It seems to be all you and having kids for your enjoyment.  Having kids isn’t supposed to be about fulfilling you.  If you are bored or feeling unfulfilled maybe do some volunteer work.  Children have worth in and of themselves, and are not just there to make us feel good.  Let’s say you could see inside of crystal ball that your husband gave in and you had a baby but this child didn’t make you happy, wasn’t cute, had a terrible disposition, had serious health problems and basically gave you no warm and fuzzy feelings?  Would you still want to have this child for the right reason that he/she is another soul for heaven?  Or would you say no thanks, I only wanted a child that I thought was going to be fun or fulfill me?  If you would still want to have a baby that did nothing for you personally, then you are probably wanting a baby for the right reasons.

Anon, I just wanted to chime in because I’m surprised at some of the other responses. There is nothing wrong with your desire to have another child or your desire to not use birth control. I’m sorry that your husband has hardened his heart and is not open to God’s plan for your family. Of course, I have no idea if that plan includes another child, but it definitely does NOT include birth control. It’s possible that, given your age, you would not have another child, but I’m sure you would have peace of mind if you at least able to be open to having another. I also disagree that the spouse who says “no” automatically trumps the desires of the spouse who says “yes.” I don’t have any real advice, but I will pray for you and your husband.

Just to clarify, I did not hear anyone say that there was something wrong with the poster because she did not want to use birth control.  I didn’t even hear that as part of the discussion except for her mentioning her husband didn’t agree with the teaching.

I have been thru times where I have had to ask myself why it is I wanted to have more kids.  It is possible to want to conceive and have misguided intentions—though none of us is perfect.  Being that we have no idea of all the circumstances of anyone posting we are only offering insight from our own experiences and that certainly should be taken into context. 

I have had moms say to me when their baby gets older that they need someone to care for.  As their other kids get older and need them less they feel a lack of fulfillment.  Outside of having a baby and a toddler they do not know what to do with themselves.  Sometimes there is a lack of fulfillment in their marriage.  There is little emotional and spiritual intimacy and having another child distracts them from having to face that.

At some point I may have felt that the most important thing in a marriage is bringing many kids into the world.  However, I’ve realized and learned that that decision needs to be factored in with a lot of other things.  Validating and listening deeply to your spouses concerns are very important.  Maybe this partiulcar husband is weary from carrying the burden of the bread winner and has a hard time imaging himself having the energy to have a 3yr old at 51 and a dependant child until he is 66.  There is always a bigger picture and I am hesitant to always give people a response that says keep having kids no matter what.

Sorry, I goofed & my reply is at the bottom somewhere.

I made this for a friend’s birthday last year—can’t beat the one bowl recipes!

http://allrecipes.com/recipe/one-bowl-chocolate-cake-iii/

I have 9, 8 at home and another coming in April. Yes, my house can seem chaotic and certainly loud. With that many people in one house it only takes each person making a small mess or clutter for it to appear completely out of control. If you have a tornado toddler/preschooler making one HUGE mess or a teen pre-teen slack on their chores (like when my dd doesn’t do the handwashing, just loads the dishwasher ARGH!) it can quickly become overwhelming. When you look at your home through the lens of a family with 1-3 children who are gone all day it makes you feel like a complete slob but you aren’t. Think about it for a moment. How much slacking/laziness would it take for a house with no one in it for 40+ hours a week and even when someone is home there are only a couple adults and a couple kids, to get as messy. Look at the same small family’s home over a vacation when they are home or when they have guests and their household expands, it suddenly isn’t as picture perfect anymore. I also have realized that the homes that have it all together frequently have outside cleaning help.
My point? Don’t compare yourself to other families, especially those that live a vastly different lifestyle than you do. Gross isn’t acceptable but the norm for 12 people living in 2000 sq ft must be different than 5 people living in 2000 sq ft.
Second, prioritize. What really drives you crazy if it isn’t in order? In a large family, especially if you homeschool (I don’t know if you do) it is near impossible to keep everything perfect. There is just too much to do and not enough time.
Third, work as a team. My kids all have chores but I find we get more done if we all do something together. It is amazing what can happen if everyone splits up into a different room and we all spend only FIVE MINUTES earnestly picking up and tidying. 6 people (the number who are big enough to make a real difference) working for 5 minutes is the same as me, alone, working for 30 and the sheer size of the area that gets straightened is far bigger tan I could have done. If I extend it to 10 minutes it is amazing what can be accomplished and it was a whopping 10 minutes. Then makes sure everyone does their vacuuming, dishes, taking out the trash etc….and you’ve got a pretty neat house and in probably less than 45 minutes. Save the big jobs (cleaning out the frig, doing baseboards, etc…for you or whomever does them well for Sat or a designated ‘big job’ day/time). For the littles instead of 5 or 10 minutes I may say “Everyone pick up 20 things!! Ready,set go!” and they run around picking up whatever they can find, shoes, toys, legos, paper, crayons, puzzle pieces etc….
Fourth, When it comes to those behind the back messes “Not Me” is always making? Locks. My bedroom and bathroom locks as does my big boys room (they have so much that littles just can’t stay out of like intricate model airplanes and trains, airsoft and nerf guns and guitars) Those three rooms alone being off limits seriously helps to avert disasters in my home. We’ve got an almost 3000 sq foot home, two floors, I can’t be everywhere at once. Some say disciplining them to not make the mess is better, I’d rather just avoid the temptation (and the wrath of the boy whose model took 20 hours to make and is now in pieces) until they are old enough to understand those boundaries. My 3 year old may get into other kids stuff still but my 8 year old wouldn’t dare.
Fifth, declutter. and be merciless. The less stuff, the less there is to make a mess with.

One thing that we started a couple years ago that has helped tremendously is to assign each child a zone to straighten every day (even the toddler has a zone - ours lines up the shoes). This has done 2 things for us.  1.  Each room is straightened every day (someone is even assigned to the laundry room exactly for the reasons you mentioned ).  2.  The kids get annoyed about stuff others left out and have become more cognisant of leaving their things out.  But, we certainly do have more stuff out with our brood of 8 than we did when we only had 1

I totally agree with Karen’s response. I have 11, 9 at home, 2,000 sq. ft.home. I have employed all of her strategies…and they are effective. (I can’t ‘live’ with the chaos all the time.) Consistency has been the key for me, regardless of changing seasons, pregnancies, and ages.

She sounds like my kids!  I just said “When it is time for baby to be born, God has a special place in the Mommy’s body where baby comes out—it’s called the “birth canal”“.

Just because someone WANTS to know something, doesn’t mean they are ENTITLED to know, until they are ready emotionally, mentally etc.  I have never met a child 5 or 6 that I think would be mature enough to handle it without a great deal of concern, about Mom and the baby being born.  I have had a few kids, and I wouldn’t want my daughters or sons at my birth because I don’t want them to fear.  I have been blessed to have my children naturally, and even then, I wouldn’t want them to equate the surges as painful when in reality they are what has to happen for my baby to be born.

I think there is a big difference in answering every question, age-appropriately, and too much information, too soon.

Maybe you could google videos of other mammals giving birth: dogs or cats.  That might be graphic enough but not alarming to a little girl.  I’ve never been one to evade a persistent interrogator: if they keep asking, we owe them a satisfactory and truthful answer (otherwise they will go elsewhere for answers).  “The baby comes out the birth canal” - “Where is the birth canal?” - “Between my legs” - “May I see it?” - “No.” (This conversation took place with one of my sons when he was about 6-8).

I had my third baby when my first two were 4 and 2.5.  When they wanted to know how the baby was born I tried “the hospital.”  When they kept pressing I told them exactly how it happens with all the correct terminology.  Is there are reason why you don’t want a book?  If it is cost, you could find something at the library, I’m sure.  If you have any pregnancy books you have used yourself, they probably have some basic pictures, too.

I was told by a wise older mom of 8 children to say “when the baby is ready, the mom’s body make a special tunnel for it to come out of.”  That has worked with all of my children.  And its true.  When asked by one child where exactly the “tunnel” form I just waved to the lower half of my body.  When this same child asked again, I said in between mama’s legs.”  All true, but not too much info.

google play at home mom for a great blog with cool playroom ideas

One of our most used toys is a small indoor trampoline that has a handle to hold on to.  My girls (4&6) use it every day!  It gets a lot of energy out and they are always smiling when they are bouncing.  Plus all I have to do is watch the show!
This is the one we have:
http://www.amazon.com/Galt-6850008-Folding-Trampoline/dp/B0007VZVGK

Hi Anon
I definitely understand your siutation since I am in the same situation. I have two young children who are very very close in age. I feel like I am always putting the baby aside to take care of my toddler because his needs are sometimes “bigger” than the baby’s (if that makes sense) and he is more needy of attention and playtime, whereas the baby is more content to sit in his bouncy chair and watch. I still feel like I am not spending as much time with the baby as I did with my toddler when he was a baby. When I do spend time with the baby, my toddler gets very upset too.
I was having a really hard time so what I came up with was to rearrange our daily routine to have opposing naps for the two of them (until they’re both old enough to play together etc) In the morning, there’s about an hour where I can spend time with both of them and get some housework done, and then my baby goes down for a nap and I get one one one time with my toddler till my baby wakes around lunch time. Then my toddler goes down for a nap and I get a good hour and half in with the baby until its time for his second nap. This way by the end of the day I feel like neither of them has been “neglected” or lacking attention. Its working out quite well and Im a lot happier!

Take a look at your “normal” day and see if you need some more structure in your day.  I know that babies and toddlers do have a lot of unforeseen urgent needs, but a little more structure and organization could help.  Babies and toddlers can be fed and/or napped before they get strung out and fussy with a little organization.  Maybe there are some things for the toddler that you can put at his level so he doesn’t need your help as much.  My first two kids were 18 months apart so I know those first few months are spent camping out on the living room floor trying to survive, but it does get easier.  If opposing naps works for you, go for it, but I spent my days trying very hard to get my two children napping at the same time so I could have a break!

Very gently, anon, I would just like to say that his is what families and siblings are for - to teach from the very earliest that there is an ‘other’ - someone else, another presence, who also has needs to be met.  Note that I am not saying that w/o siblings this lesson cannot be learned. 

If I had to guess, my hunch is that *you* are going through some growing pains as a mom right now & learning from experience how constant, needy and persistent young children are.  My hunch is that the kids are just fending for themselves & trying to get their needs met - if there were only one, that one would still take up every blessed minute of your day; with 2 you are really feeling the fatigue & round-the-clock physical, mental & emotional demands.  Hang in there.  Make sure you’re getting a little bit of rejuvenation, so that you can come in strong and ready for their “tag-teaming!”  God bless.

Keep your chin up!  I stressed myself out soooo much when my first few kids were young, trying to keep up with my perceptions of what everyone else was doing….The reality is that my kids (12, 10 and 9) remember almost none of the the things that I exhausted myself over!  Their best memories are of little things that happened spontaneously, not the memories I tried to create or the house I struggled (in vain) to keep tidy, or the times I was the only mom to forget snacks during ballet class….  What matters at the end of the day is how happy you are as a family and how much you enjoy each other, nothing else!  As Chesterton says, “Break the conventions, keep the Commandments!”

Wow, dinner gets made?  When I was morning sick with each of mine, dinner was pretty iffy…  :-p Actually, so was everything else except the absolute necessities (kids fed, changed/pottied, and safe).  Nothing wrong with jammies all day!  I fully expect to be in that mode in a few weeks when my third is born. 
Anyway, morning sickness is real and just has to be dealt with as best you can - and mine was always *way* worse if I pushed myself beyond the absolute minimum.  I think my dh preferred coming home to a messy house with a somewhat nauseated wife rather than a maybe-still-clean house with a puking wife…  Good luck and I hope you feel better soon!

Mama A, I’m coming over to your house! Everyone’s dressed?  Laundry’s done?!  Dinner’s made??!?    All right! Caviar! Swimming pools!

On a more serious note.  You are seeing what others *want* you to see - what they have *hand-chosen* for you to see.  All external.  And then you are comparing your secret wishes & feelings to that.  All internal.  It never works out, lemme warn you!  Do not compare your internals with others’ externals.  You never know what secret sorrow, or shame, or sin, or regret, or fear those same other people are dealing with right now.  Just be you: Mama A, the mom blessed with these little ones.  They need *you*, not someone else’s immaculate house. 
(For some funny reason, the children’s poem/book “Over in the Meadow” just came to me.  It’s a beautiful book, with each animal Mama and her babies just doing what they’re supposed to do.)

As a p.s: After 8 years of marriage to me, plus reading a few Catholic momblogs over my shoulder now & then, my husband points out that we women have an amazing talent for “cherry-picking what other women do best and comparing ourselves unfavorably to it.”  He’s got a point.

This is a tough situation. He is probably just doing it to get attention.  I always tell my kids that we keep our private parts covered not because they are bad, but because our bodies are a gift, and we want to treat it as a special gift from God. 
Strategize with him on other things he can say and do that are funny instead of “bathroom talk” or showing private parts. 
Also ask him to tell you if anyone has been showing him their private parts.  When my son was in First Grade he started exposing himself to me at home and when I asked him “what made you think that was a good idea to do?” He said a classmates name. It turns out a boy in his class was exposing himself to my son.  I went to the teacher and school prinicipal with my concerns.  I pray this is not the case with your son!

My 4 yo is having a tough time too - she did last year and the year before.  She LOVES Christmas and talks about all.year.long.  When she pulled one decoration/toy out of the storage box a few minutes after I put it in, I let her do it, but I said, “Christmas wouldn’t be special if it was all the time.”  We still have lots of stuff up (the tree, the stockings), and some of it will have to be put away during the day.  But most of it, I will do at night or when she isn’t paying attention.  It’s your call if you want to leave some things available year round, but I think it’s better to have non-Christmas things to tide her over and to keep the nativity set special for this time of year.  Noah’s ark sets are easy to find, and there are many saint dolls.  I thought I had seen a fabric church and a fabric family to go inside, but I can’t find it online right now.  And she might love a music CD with children’s songs like “Jesus loves the Little Children” and “This Little Light of Mine.”

Well, my daughter loves her little people Nativity so much that I left it out for two years straight - we kept it in a box when she wasn’t playing with it, but she played with it a LOT.  I think I noticed last spring that she wasn’t playing with it as much so I put it with the Christmas stuff and pulled it back out this Advent - she was happy to see it! Not sure what I’ll do with it now.  I also left the Charlie Brown Christmas soundtrack in our car CD player and we have listened to it frequently (though I don’t say yes EVERY time she asks to listen to it). It hadn’t occurred to me to keep the season extra special… so for me, I had no problem keeping a few things going but I didn’t give in to keeping the tree up or the lights on the porch till next year. :>)

There’s nothing wrong with still celebrating the nativity, but one of the greatest things about being catholic is celebrating year round! My little is now six, but we do different things for different seasons. You can celebrate saint feast days and read other non-nativity bible stories in ordinary time. (mine is especially fond of the good Samaritan.) she has a collection of saint cards she likes to look at, and a framed picture of Jesus and Mary (inexpensive print in dollar store frame). We’ve done a Lenten shoebox and sacrifice beans the past two years during lent. You can google those and the catholic icing blog has lots of great ideas as well. Also, there are some passion play sets as well out there (I think oriental trading has one) you might look into. Have fun!

I did do tandem nursing with my first two.  It got hard as the pregnancy progressed b/c I was so uncomfortable (dry nursing isn’t fun!), but it did help when ds arrived and I could just sit and cuddle and nurse with both.  I did really limit my dd’s nursing time though (1-5 min. at a time), since during the pregnancy I just couldn’t handle it for very long.  So the one-on-each-side time once ds came wasn’t long either, really just enough for dd to feel connected with mama.  I’m due with #3 in a few weeks and, while I didn’t make ds stop nursing, he kind of forgot how once I dried up (that is even more uncomfortable than dry nursing - when they forget how to latch and just suck like you’re a straw!) and now is okay with just snuggling with me.  Anyway, both the tandem nursing and the natural end to nursing worked for me (though we’ll see if ds wants to try again once baby is nursing…); different kids, different needs, I guess.  Good luck and congrats on your pregnancy!

Congratulations!  I tandem nursed for babies 2, 3, 4 and 5.  It can be hard and a little weird at first.  But I honestly don’t know how I would comfort or sooth an 18 month old or a two year old without a little nursing here and there.  Sometimes, and toddler nurses quite a bit as they negotiate their way through big milestones like walking and talking and potty.  What would they do without that touchstone to Mom?  Adventures in Tandem Nursing by Hilary Flower is a nice book that you can probably borrow from your LLL chapter!

I nursed until the pain was SO BAD I was biting my lip not to cry out while nursing (happened around 4 months preggo).  Then I force-weaned in 24 hours.  What else could I do?!  It was awful.  So just throw the possibility of pain into your pot of possibilities; I hear its not unheard of.  And if it starts coming on, you may want to start gentle weaning right away & not wait until you’re in agony and have to move fast.  I convinced myself I could handle just a little more pain for just a few more months, until I… couldn’t. take. another. minute.  Good luck!

I appreciate your advice and ideas. I will definitely try to find that book. JenH- What pain are you talking of? Dry nursing pain? When you “dried up” did your kids persist to continue to nurse or did it cause them to lose interest?