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Danielle Bean

Danielle Bean
Danielle Bean, a mother of eight, is editor-in-chief of Catholic Digest and Faith & Family. She is author of My Cup of Tea, Mom to Mom, Day to Day, and most recently Small Steps for Catholic Moms. Though she once struggled to separate her life and her …
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Rachel Balducci

Rachel Balducci
Rachel Balducci is married to Paul and they are the parents of five lively boys and one precious baby girl. She is the author of How Do You Tuck In A Superhero?, and is a newspaper columnist for the Diocese of Savannah, Georgia. For the past four years, she has …
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Lisa Hendey

Lisa Hendey
Lisa Hendey is the founder and editor of CatholicMom.com and the author of A Book of Saints for Catholic Moms and The Handbook for Catholic Moms. Lisa is also enjoys speaking around the country, is employed as webmaster for her parish web sites and spends time on various …
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Arwen Mosher

Arwen Mosher
Arwen Mosher lives in southeastern Michigan with her husband Bryan and their 4-year-old daughter, 2-year-old son, and twin boys born May 2011. She has a bachelor's degree in theology. She dreads laundry, craves sleep, loves to read novels and do logic puzzles, and can't live without tea. Her personal blog site …
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Rebecca Teti

Rebecca Teti
Rebecca Teti is married to Dennis and has four children (3 boys, 1 girl) who -- like yours no doubt -- are pious and kind, gorgeous, and can spin flax into gold. A Washington, DC, native, she converted to Catholicism while an undergrad at the U. Dallas, where she double-majored in …
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Robyn Lee

Robyn Lee
Robyn Lee is a 30-something, single lady, living in Connecticut in a small bungalow-style kit house built by her great uncle in the 1950s. She also conveniently lives next door to her sister, brother-in-law and six kids ... and two doors down are her parents. She received her undergraduate degree from …
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DariaSockey

DariaSockey
Daria Sockey is a freelance writer and veteran of the large family/homeschooling scene. She recently returned home from a three-year experiment in full time outside employment. (Hallelujah!) Daria authored several of the original Faith&Life Catechetical Series student texts (Ignatius Press), and is currently a Senior Writer for Faith&Family magazine. A latecomer …
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Guest Bloggers

Kate Lloyd

Kate Lloyd
Kate Lloyd is a rising senior, and a political science major at Thomas More College of Liberal Arts in New Hampshire. While not in school, she lives in Whitehall PA, with her mom, dad, five sisters and little brother. She needs someone to write a piece about how it's possible to …
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Lynn Wehner

Lynn Wehner
As a wife and mother, writer and speaker, Lynn Wehner challenges others to see the blessings that flow when we struggle to say "Yes" to God’s call. Control freak extraordinaire, she is adept at informing God of her brilliant plans and then wondering why the heck they never turn out that …
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School Rules

Coffee Talk: Education

(Join each day’s Coffee Talk discussion: Mon: Parenting; Tues: Open Forum; Wed: NFP; Thu: Marriage; Fri: Education; Sat/Sun: Homemaking)

Whether your children attend school or are homeschooled, this is the spot to ask questions about curricula, religious education, parent-teacher relationships, or academic concerns of any kind.

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Comments

Page 1 of 1 pages

 

Piano, or no piano? I’m trying to figure out if it’s worth the cost (for lessons and gas) and time for my 8 year old son to take piano lessons. He’ll be in third grade in the fall. I know I’m biased because I always wanted to take piano lessons and was never able, but I’m leery of starting anything that’s going to require I hound him about practicing since I spend enough time telling him what to do all day. (We homeschool.) Could we skip the piano and just sign him up for another instrument when he’s old enough to be in a band? Is third grade a good age? Too young? Too old?

 

My first thought is, “Does HE want to do it?” If not, I wouldn’t even go there. If he does, try it for a year. In our grade school, there is an elementary band teacher, who offers lessons beginning in 4th grade. When my son expressed an interest, I was thrilled, but we also made it clear he had to make a one year committment, and he did. After two years of that, he switched to piano, and has gone on to organ. None of my other children expressed the same interest or committment level, so I never pushed it. Sounds like a good age to start—if he wants it. (our piano teacher will take them in first grade, if they want to, but not earlier.) It’s a wonderful skill to have, but I don’t think it’s worth “battles”. One more thing, if my son had a piece/concept mastered, I did not “require” full practice time…I didn’t want to force it. If I thought he needed more work on something, I encouraged him to practice more.

 

My 2 oldest started piano lessons in the second grade. I always wanted to learn and told them it was a privelege for them to get to take lessons. They both want to learn, and I think that is the key. they are required to practice 20 minutes a day for at least 4 days a week, not counting their lesson. if they do not practice, they owe me $25 (the cost of the week’s lesson). They always practice much longer. I have also told them if they don’t practice, or give me trouble about it, I would take their lessons instead. This hasn’t happened in 4 years. I wouldn’t force a child to do it, but if they see it as a gift (which I really think it is), they will want to do it. I think it is a wonderful thing to learn the piano, and our kids are lucky to have the chance. They love being able to sit at family parties and play songs or participate in recitals.

 

If he wants to then go for it. If not wait and see if he develops the desire.

One of my dd’s friends is a nationally recognized pianist. She gave piano lessons in the homeschool (and beyond) community. She loves playing the piano, hated giving lessons. Why? The vast majority of her students didn’t want to play the piano, didn’t practice, didn’t care and she felt her time was being wasted. Eventually she fired all but two of her students, the two who wanted to be there and practiced, losing a lot of money in the process but regaining her joy in teaching.
When you are thinking about putting your son in lessons remember it isn’t just your time and money that you should think about but the teacher too.

 

I was conflicted about piano too. We decided not to do it because my oldest (boys) were involved in theatre and other arts. Now they are 10 and 1 is taking guitar because he showed interest and the other is joining the beginner homeschool band in the fall. Guitar has been wonderful and easy because he wants to do it. He hasn’t been doing it long enough that he’ll just pick it up and play, but he doesn’t complain about practicing and I can see that playing it won’t be an issue. So I guess I would talk to him about it and see what he thinks. Our homeschool band director has a policy that parents who are interested can bring their child to his home to “test drive” some instruments to see if the child thinks any are a good fit before making a commitment so you might check into that option too if he shows interest.

 

Hmm.  I took a different approach - maybe more forceful than some others here. 

Here’s how we got to piano: I was taking my kids into the city for a free afterschool art program.  My son got tired of it and asked whether he could take piano lessons instead because I said he had to do something to grow the creative part of his brain.  He thought piano would be less work (!).  Boy, was he sorry.  The thing is, this boy needed discipline, and I did not want to fight with him about schoolwork.  If we fought about piano practice time, I thought I could get the message across. 

He never did take to the piano, but when he switched to a brass instrument in eighth grade, he loved it.  Much easier (less work - sigh!).  His band teacher asked him to play the euphonium, and then… it was magic.  He played at Mass.  He played in the marching band.  He added trombone for jazz band.  He almost joined a military band.  He spent $6000 of his own money on a concert euphonium.

My other children all took piano lessons, too.  The oldest quit in high school but is now (post-college) paying for and taking violin lessons on her own time.  The third child is a piano performance major in college.  The two younger boys were allowed to switch away from the piano as soon as they were eligible for brass in elementary school - and both did.  One is an all-state French horn player, and the other is playing the trombone.  He is more like the oldest boy, and considers trombone work, even though he has talent.  So we’ll see where it goes, if anywhere.

This is a long post, but I wanted you to see why I have come to the following conclusions:  First, music lessons are worth the time and money and aggravation of practicing.  They grow your child’s brain in ways that cannot be duplicated.  Third grade is a good age to begin, and I agree with other posters that you should set up the parameters up front (privilege to take, requirements for practicing, consequences if the child doesn’t cooperate, commitment for one year at a time).  Second, be flexible - if your child likes music but doesn’t like piano, find another instrument.  Consider what music s/he likes!  With my third child, we did three years of guitar in addition to piano during middle school (she wanted to quit piano - HA!).  With all the others, switching away from the piano was the right move.  After our oldest son’s experience we also thought about what instruments are always welcome (read:  hard to find, so players are sought after).  Hence the French horn and the trombone, rather than (say) trumpet, violin, or flute.

Good luck!

 

I was a music teacher for a while. Piano lessons are fairly important for musical literacy. If I were homeschooling, I would say that a year of piano lessons were part of the curriculum and insist that the child do a year’s worth of work. After that, your child should have a good foundation for congregational singing or other musical endeavours. And, 3rd grade is a fine time to start since all you should need to do is give him time to practice. Chatting with him about what he’s doing (even if you have no clue what he’s saying) is also important.

 

Ha, I made it sound like I’d only require piano if I were a homeschooling mom. I just started me 3.5 year old on piano last week because he sees me playing all the time and he’ll take lessons from me until he learns what I’ve expected from him or he needs a different teacher. I’d second Scotch Meg and say that my children will get to switch (or quit) after a while because I was forced to play the piano for 14 years and hated it 99.99999% of the time. I ended up majoring in organ, which I picked up quickly because I actually wanted to play for a change.

 

I started taking piano lessons at 7 (thought my mom says I was ready to start at age 2) and it has shaped my entire life—in a completely positive way.  I started accompanying my school chorus in 7th grade, continued through HS and college (I majored in music) and have never had a problem finding work as a musician.  I also taught private lessons for 13 years, until I had my 4th child (just a little too much to juggle!).  I say absolutely and with no hesitation, put your child in piano lessons.  For at least a year, probably even 2.  If at THAT point he is not interested in playing, then let him drop, or go to another instrument if he still likes the music but not the piano per se.  I say all this b/c now that my oldest is 13 and playing the trumpet, I can’t tell you how much I regret not having taught him piano.  We did try, and we dabbled, but it wasn’t a serious effort on my part.  And I can see plain as day that having those first couple of years in piano would have benefitted him tremendously.  I think he probably would have even continued playing (piano).  And I missed the boat.  Although I’m still thinking I might try with him.  I am already promising myself I will not make the same mistake with my other kids, who are 10, 6, and 2. (If I hurry I can get the 10 yr. old going, the almost-7 yr old is the perfect age, and of course I won’t be doing anything formal with the 2 yr. old yet!)  The older 2 are in their second year of violin and doing well and enjoying it—but even so, I have to remind them and sometimes demand that they practice.  It is just the nature of kids, and they need discipline, and music is a good way to develop it smile  Yes, teachers will be annoyed (but not surprised) if their students don’t practice….but good teachers will inspire and still make those lessons valuable.  Now, having a 6th year student not practice—that can be really frustrating, but in my own experience, a teacher will confront that problem head-on and either end up with a student that practices or a new student in that one’s place. 
I’ve probably gotten off track here, but I’ll reiterate:  do not hesitate to put your child in piano, whether or not they “show interest”—it will reap benefits regardless.  If they really hate it, I’d try a different teacher—there are definitely good and not-so-good ones.  Ask for personal recommendations.  And whether your child stays with it for the minimum 1 year (or 2), or plays the rest of their life, professionally or not, or goes on to another instrument, you and they will be glad you invested the time and money. 

I also second the idea of considering less common instruments down the road (unlike my children!)—there are places in school and community bands and orchestras for all the instruments and there aren’t always well-trained musicians to fill them.  And more competition for All-County and All-State, etc. on the popular solo instruments.  Just a thought for down the road smile
Good luck!

 

I have started all of my children on piano in the 2nd grade.  Mandatory.  We homeschool and it is a part of their education - not just music appreciation but it thoroughly stimulates the brain cells and aids in cognitive development overall.  Studies have shown that learning to play an instrument is invaluable, and piano is the best one to learn because you learn both the treble and the bass clefs and your hands must operate independently.  I would eat beans and rice to be able to afford piano lessons for my children.  I did, though, promise those who would be in middle or high school next year that they could pick another instrument (within reason).  My (rising) 9th grader wants to do trumpet, my (rising) 6th grader wants to do violin, and my (rising) 7th grader wants to do guitar (I told him it must be classical guitar, and those lessons are available, thank goodness).  I really don’t see music as an “extra” but rather a vital component to my children’s education.  It’s not as important as math, but I’d prioritize piano lessons over a foreign language or art and even science (and I earned a Bachelor of Science in College).

 

I say wait until your child is a couple of years older, unless he strongly wants to play now. My brother teaches piano lessons and says that the older the child, the easier it is for the child to progress.

 

I started piano lessons at around that age. I liked taking the lessons, but I didn’t like practicing, even though I did when reminded and encouraged in the form of incentives. My older brother started playing the clarinet in our school band in 5th grade (or 6th?) and went on to play in our HS band, so I don’t think waiting a few years would be a problem, if you decide to go that route. I think the most important question is, what does your son want to do? Does he want to take piano lessons? Does he want to learn a band instrument? If he’s not interested in playing anything, I wouldn’t push it. There are lots of things he can do to be well-rounded. And if he wants to try music later, it’s much easier to jump into a choir without previous experience than to try to join a band or something.

 

Do you know how to read music (or does your husband?) Unless he want to be a great piano player, the “point” at that age is mostly to learn to read music and love music. If you are musically inclined yourself, homeschooling might be a good option! There are great books available to help do so. I did handbell choir at church starting in 1st grade (although until about 3rd grade they only let us use chimes!) and then piano in 4th and 5th grade plus choir at church since I was about 3 and at school since 6th grade, and the more music instruction you have, the easier learning future music skills tends to be. If your son is really interested, I think he’s a good age, but if not, I’d try the DIY approach-or maybe try it for a while to gauge his interest level!

 

What kinds of chores do you have your 10-12 kids do on a regular basis?

 

Rebecca,

My 10 and 11 year old boys clean their own bathroom, and dust and vacuum the entire house.  My 11 year old just started making dinner once a week (spaghetti or tacos), cleaning up the dinner dishes, and doing his own laundry.

 

Leila Lawler of Our Mothers Our Daughters does a nice post on this that summarizes chores for kids. I love her posts about child and home care!

http://www.ourmothersdaughters.blogspot.com/2011/08/what-can-children-do-guide.html

 

I am looking for advice.  Our daughter turns two in three weeks.  Her vocab and speech is great.  She speaks in complete sentences.  She will look at books and tell herself a story based on the pictures she sees.  In the last month, however, she has started to stutter.  It is significant.  And it has started to frustrate her to the point of tears and tantrums.  To try to avoid the frustration, I will say the word for her.  This however lends to the tantrums because she wants to “do it herself.”  I understand that independence is part of the stage (we have been through the age of two before) but the stammering has us concerned.  We did not experience this with my son.  We are wondering if we should have her evaluated.  Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

My son (who is 5) also has very strong language skills and started stuttering when he was 3. His preschool teacher suggested having him evaluated, but I wasn’t sure about it, so I spoke with a friend who is a speech therapist first. She said a few things that were helpful. First, some forms of stuttering are common in kids with advanced language skills because their motor skills haven’t caught up with their language skills. The situation often improves by school age. (My son has improved.) Second, there are different kinds of stuttering that require different kinds/amounts of therapy. Third, finishing the word for the child seems to parents that it’s helpful, but it’s not (nor is telling the child to slow down). My advice is to talk with your pediatrician, but not to get too worried at this point.

 

My dd did that too, though it didn’t seem so frustrating for her (though we didn’t supply words, we just waited).  Oddly (well, it seems odd to me since it’s not the “typical” stammer you hear about), she stuttered over the ends-nds-nds-s of words, sort of like it took her a minute to get in order what she wanted to say next.  She’s 5 now and doesn’t usually stammer at all.  I don’t know at what point one would want to get a child evaluated, but if she’s talking a lot or with a larger vocabulary than is typical for the age, then my guess is that it’s just taking her a bit more time to process all that and she’ll outgrow it.  But you could always ask your pediatrician if you’re worried or it seems more extreme than it sounds in a forum post.  grin

 

Thanks for your help ladies!

 

Our oldest did what Anna described - lots of stammering and repeating the ends of words as though he was trying to stretch it out while he considered what came next. It was very frustrating for us at times, though it didn’t seem to bother him much. In some cases we waited him out, and sometimes we asked him to stop and think for a minute about what he wanted to say and then say it slowly. He grew out of it and is now a fantastic speaker - his kindergarten and first grade teachers were amazed at his verbal reading and articulation skills. Our second child (a daughter) didn’t struggle as much, but our third did. His aunt (a teacher) told us we may have to have speech therapy for him, but we knew from experience to wait him out. Now he is 4 1/2, and it has virtually stopped. It seems his motor skills caught up with his brain! I believe in many cases it is exactly that - that children, especially those who are advanced conceptual thinkers - often aren’t capable yet of organizing and expressing all of their thoughts as they want to.

 

My youngest son - age 3.5 (and an Identical twin) stutters at times, especially when he’s telling me a ‘story’. I just try to be patient, and continue eye contact with him, and let him talk. He doesn’t get frustrated with me, but if his brother or sister won’t wait for him to finish, he will melt down. It’s hard, but for us, it doesn’t happen all that often. (maybe three times a week?)
Prayers for you—I have no advice as far as speech, etc. Hang in there.

 

I’m just now starting to think about curriculum for next school year. (Usually I have everything picked out by this time!) I’ve seen a few references to the Robinson Curriculum & A2 Homeschool Curriculum lately. The idea of having all 12 years worth of education on one CD or set of CDs (plus access to great literature, etc.) sounds intriguing. Of course, I would supplement our religion & make sure content is in line w/ Catholic teaching. (I believe I saw there’s a Yahoo group for Catholic families.)

Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone has any experience &/or information about either one.

 

I need advice on “trying out” homeschooling by doing preschool at home.  We are probably going to homeschool our currently almost-four-year-old when the time comes.  However, circumstances and his very social nature might cause us to reconsider as his 5 year fall approaches.  We have a good Catholic grade school in the area, so that is our other option.  I am wondering if anyone has done a “test run” of homeschooling with a preschool curriculum.  What program, if any, did you use?  Did it give you an accurate impression of how well you and your child will work together?  Is there any value in starting with preschool, or would I just be pushing the envelope too much.  I must add that, as I posted on another thread, he isn’t potty trained yet, so I probably won’t even bother with schooling until that happens…

 

Monica,
Yes I am test running homeschooling this year for my 4 year old.  She is doing great.  We love Catholic Icing’s ABC path, use Handwriting with out tears and random pre-k printable packs and of-course crafts.  I’m in my own co-op with 1 other mom and girl.  It is a delight to teach and instruct, however, with baby #4 coming in the fall, I’m sending her to full day public kindergarten (no private schools in this small town.)  Preschool is a pretty easy commitment (I started with lesson plans, goals and objectives-now we just go with the flow…)  However, remember you have to do what is best for the individual child.  DD is involved in SYF (CCD), story hour, and a Mom’s Day Out program that give her the socialization part.  On the other hand, DS who just turned 3 started 2 day a week pre-K at the school this semester (he needs speech help).  I’ll be praying for peace in your decision.

 

I think all kids are different so a test run may or may not work.  We homeschool.  My 7th child is the first child I have had who had any interest in preschool type work.  But, he is our first child to not have a younger sibling until he was 4 (i.e.  he wasn’t leaving any playmate to come sit down and do school lessons).  So, while you could try it I wouldn’t say that if things don’t go well they wouldn’t go well the following year.  Kids change so much in a year.

 

Monica, EVERY mother homeschools to some degree - and we start from birth!  I recommend the book, Real Learning: Education in the Heart of the Home, by Elizabeth Foss.  It’s about homeschooling, but it’s also about how everyday life is educational and how to make the most of daily activities and make education a seamless part of your family life.  School is not simply sitting at a desk or table and learning to write or read or add and subtract…in fact, quite a bit of learning does not happen this way.  My 1st grader (boy) STILL has a hard time sitting at the table to do his formal schoolwork.  I doubt he would be any better in a classroom setting, and I doubt he would be better if I tried to formally begin when he was 4.  Make the decision to homeschool on what is right for your family this year, or next year, or every year, NOT on if you can follow a preschool curriculum with success.

 

I did a test run last year for my then 4 year old who is also very social by nature.  By the end of the year I was absolutely exhausted and he was still complaining about not having enough kids around to play with.  At the eleventh hour I enrolled him in our local Catholic school for his first year.  He’s fully engaged in his learning now because he’s doing it with his classmates, and I love how the school is run.  We’re both the happiest we’ve been in over a year. 
In saying that, I won’t enrol my second son in a pre-school program either.  As exhausting as last year was, I loved the bonding we did and the strong relationship we have as a result (and my second son doesn’t have half the social needs of his big brother!).
In the way of curriculum I didn’t really follow a set plan, but I found Letterland helpful for teaching the alphabet and some pre-reading skills.  I also used the book “The Write Start” for some pre-writing activities.  I confess I was more of an ‘unschooler’ though. 
In regards to making your decision to homeschool or not, I found that God knew what I needed to do ~ I just needed to listen to Him.

 

You’ve gotten so much sound advice here. I love 1+1+1=1 blog, and Homeschool Creations and Confessions of a Homeschooler also have loads of resources. I don’t think a formal preschool setting is necessary. Having said that—I’ve sent all 4 of my children—but it was PLAY based, not academic. My twins are there now, two days/week. I send them to be able to have some solid blocks of time to work with my youngest daughter and her homeschool work.

I also love Kumon workbooks ... they have some for cutting, tracing, coloring, mazes, and LOADS more. I’ll be using them with my boys this summer and next fall. (they will be 4 in May)


For me, it wasn’t the lack of resources, but the sheer amount of stuff I see that I want us to do. I get overwhelmed with all the cool stuff I see and want to try out.

 

My now 5 year old daughter has done almost everything under the sun for preschool.  When older sister was doing Kindergarten, we did “tot school” with lots of resources from a blog called 1+1+1=1 :  http://1plus1plus1equals1.blogspot.com/ (she has a lot of older preschool stuff, too.)  Then some friends of mine wanted to do a preschool coop, so I joined in, and we used affordable preschool curriculum: http://www.preschoolcurriculum.com/ which is secular because we had 3 Catholic and 1 Mormon families involved.  After we moved, we did Little Saints Catholic preschool program: http://www.catholicpreschool.com/ which I loved, but sometimes it was hard to get the books suggested (lots of OOP for my small town library) so I would just get recommendations from my librarian on the topics.  We also used quite of few of Catholic Icings Catholic ABC posts, and I may buy her new book for Kindergarten CCD next year, if that’s the grade I end up with: http://catholicicing.com/catholic-preschool-curriculum/  This year, she is at our local preschool (mostly for speech therapy, but I do like the preschool teachers and environment a lot for her) and we have finished up the pre-K Handwriting Without Tears workbook, and are going to start on some BOB books.  She’ll also probably get through the Rod and Staff workbooks “Do it Carefully” and “Everywhere we Go” this year. Next year we are looking into virtual charter schools.  Each kid and mom is different, and I have found that sometimes moving to a different focus or curriculum helps to make a homeschooling relationship work.  My eldest and I both ended up in tears a couple of times a week over our first math curriculum (for 1 1/2 years!).  Our second was better, but still stressful for me, and this year I am just loving that I outsourced math to the computer (she’s using teaching textbooks, which makes my life much easier.) Just because one thing worked for one kid doesn’t mean it is a magic bullet, though.


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