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Email a FriendI just discovered this website a couple of weeks ago. I just want to say that it’s been a blessing to me. I have been saying for awhile now that while I love our church there isn’t a whole lot for us Mom’s in the 20s and 30s group. Hard to meet other Mom’s that have young children or are in the crux of raising children. I have found that here and I feel like it’s been an answer to prayer. Thank you for this website and for all of you women here!
Some Comments on Comments
Posted by Danielle Bean in News on Thursday, June 23, 2011 9:00 AM
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You know what made me sad recently?
I was reading this discussion over at Rachel’s blog when I came across a couple of comments that made it clear that some people avoid visiting Faith & Family Live because of the tone of some of the discussions here.
One said:
The large blog (where I’m assuming this backlash took place) is a wonderful thing that has blessed, inspired, and helped me MANY times. But there’s been some vocal newer additions who have a perhaps narrower version of what it means to be Catholic and what’s right and wrong, or sinful or not. So there are some comments I try to gloss over and keep going. We don’t all have to agree and we don’t all have to live our lives or our Faith the same way. But some are too quick to point out what they see as failures in others. It’s their perception — try to remember their responses say more about them than you.
and another said:
I actually have had to stop reading that other blog because of the women who comment on there – they are rude and judgmental in the sense of judging non-moral issues and persons.
And I said: Rats. That’s not the kind of place I want Faith & Family to be.
I addressed the problem of negative comments last summer, but perhaps it’s time for a friendly reminder ...
Please, can we seek to support others here more than we seek to tear them down in an effort to prove that There Is Only One Right Way to Be a Catholic Mom and That Way Is the Way I Do It?
Let’s recognize the fact that we are among friends and sisters here. The people visiting this site and commenting here are, by and large, Catholic women who love their faith and their families. They love the Church and are seeking to be good Catholic wives and mothers. They come here for support and encouragement in that vocation.
Let’s recognize the fact that when we respond with negativity, pride, and anger, especially in online discussions of important topics related to our Catholic faith, we turn people off to our point of view. Even if we are 100% correct.
I really do think that the vast majority of readers and commenters at Faith & Family do an admirable job of communicating in love, even when we disagree. It’s a small but vocal minority (and perhaps some drive-by commenters) who manage to turn things ugly sometimes and make the rest of us feel that perhaps we should bow out of the conversation. Or not bother to participate in the first place.
I am so grateful for the presence and participation of every one of you here. We couldn’t be the successful community we are without you. I would hate to lose the loving and supportive community we’ve worked hard to build because some of us have lost sight of our goals.
As I reminded readers in my previous comments manifesto, our goal at Faith & Family is this:
“We hope that you will join us as we work toward building a Christ-centered community where we can encourage and support one another in the joyful, challenging, important work of Catholic living.”
Let’s do that, let’s be that, today and every day.
Comments
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I’ve been following your writing a long time and so I know this problem has regularly popped up to plague you. Know that many of us are praying -especcially on the topics we choose not to comment on….
But God can be funny, I try to remember to pray before I hit send. When I forget the site fails on my computer! Maybe the paragraph above the form “By submitting….” Could include the words “Ask the Holy Spirit if you should hit send”
Posted by Pat on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 9:39 AM (EDT):
Amen sister! I’ve been reading F&F for several years and it has been quite a blessing. Yes, I’ve read some harsh comments. I pray for all our F&F sisters, that we may be a support network for one another. I remember being a new mama (7 years ago) and as our family grew, I became equally stressed out and frustrated. By the grace of our Lord, I turned to Him and found F&F. Finally….I “met” women of faith who shared about their struggles and desire to grow in their faith. Please….let us continue to grow in our faith and support for one another. Jesus is here for us!
Posted by Melissa on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 10:06 AM (EDT):
I wanted to say that I don’t comment very often but not because of others comments. I have seen some that are not as nice but that is that person commenting and not F&F. I have so enjoyed reading and learning from this site. I live in a small town where we have 1 small Catholic parish, and I am 1 of about 5 moms with young children. The majority of people in our little town have many misconceptions about the faith. I am friends with some in a mom group and they do recpect my faith but they would love to see me just come to their church. So having a site to come to that is full of Catholic moms is wonderful. Thank you.
Posted by Kathy on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 10:13 AM (EDT):
I haven’t noticed the comments posted here to be especially negative or judgmental - maybe because I spend a lot of time reading the blogs on the NYT, WSJ and National Catholic Reporter;-) Personally, I enjoy and benefit from the comments that are provocative. It makes me think - even the ones that I think are rigid & dogmatic.
A couple of years ago there was a fascinating conversation on this blog begun by a comment I sincerely made regarding whether it was ethical to purposely conceive a child while DH was in graduate school and the family was living solely on gov’t aid. I learned a lot from the many comments made in response to mine and because of a comment you made Danielle, I changed my thinking on the subject. Thank you.
I’m not sure why people would feel judged by strangers who comment on an article or another’s post. They don’t even know you, and maybe if we all kept that in mind, we could have some interesting conversations . . .peace
Posted by Elizabeth M on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 10:25 AM (EDT):
Danielle,
I wrote that first comment on Rachel’s blog that you copied above. I wrote in in fact in response to a couple people (including the other one you copied) who said that they stopped reading F&F because of negative or judgmental comments. I was trying to point out that there is SO MUCH else worth reading here and you don’t need to skip the whole site even if a few comments are too negative. So I apologize if my point wasn’t clear.
But, yes, it’s been disappointing when it’s clear that someone’s feelings are hurt or someone feels overly criticized, but that is NOT the majority of what happens here nor is it the vast majority of the wonderful, supportive women in this community.
This is a wonderful community. I wish I could have even a few of you women in my real-life community or parish!
So thank you for the reminder—to us all—but please at least know that I was trying to respond to those who’d been turned off by the few.
Danielle—please know how much we appreciate all of your work, and the work of the other F&F bloggers and writers.
Posted by Sally on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 10:52 AM (EDT):
In the spirit of laughter and tongue-in-cheek fun, I present the 9 types of Catholic commenters: http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Nine-Types-of-Catholic-Commenters-Max-Lindenman-03-25-2011.html
Probably most of you saw this on The Anchoress’ blog (maybe it was posted here, too, a while back? My brain is fuzzy!)
But, yes, this is a much “healthier and friendlier” blog environment than most that I’ve seen. You’ll always get some angry commenters who want to fuel arguments (excuse me, “debates”), or people bringing their own issues to the fore in an otherwise innocent blog post. BUT this group is for the most part, a sharing, lovely group of Catholic women of all types (single, married, mothers, grandmothers, godmothers, spiritual mothers, urban-dwellers, farm-dwellers *cough* SARAH, etc.) Keep up the great work!
Posted by Kris on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 8:00 PM (EDT):
I really enjoyed the link. It was hillarious. Thanks for sharing:)
Posted by Kallie on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 11:15 AM (EDT):
I’m with Kathy - this site’s commenters are WONDERFUL, especially in comparison to other blogs’ comment sections. Having been reading message boards and blogs for well over a decade, and stopped reading quite a few because of the tone of the comments and inability for there to ever be constructive dialogue (including WaPo and various law blogs, or even First Things, which hasn’t developed the kind of commenter community I would have hoped) I have no problem saying this blog’s commenters are among the most gracious, compassionate, friendly, and helpful out there. It is why I am a regular reader!
Posted by Jenny @ mamanash.com on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 11:39 AM (EDT):
Danielle,
Your post is very timely as I just had this conversation with my husband. I used to read every word posted on F&F but about a year ago I quit completely. I think the writers here are very talented and have great topics. I love reading about how each one lives out his/her Catholic faith in every day life and I love how that makes me reflect on my own life. How can I be a better Catholic mother/wife/woman?
But it was some of the commenters that left a bitter taste in my mouth and made me quit reading F&F altogether. It was like getting 100 compliments and one negative comment—it’s always that one negative comment that stays with you.
I still do follow F&F posts on my FB feed and the other day I clicked over to read the post about Yoga. As a practicer of yoga I was intrigued. I thought Dan Connors wrote a well-informed piece but once again it was the comments section that left me feeling like I might as well be a satan-worshipper and reminded me why I’m not a more frequent reader of this site.
While I am the first person to be engaged in an intense discussion, it’s the tone of the commenters that has turned me off. I’m so afraid of making one misstep and being ridiculed and judged for it that I’ve chosen to stay away altogether.
Again, I think the writers on this site are fabulous and as a compromise I’ve started reading each of their personal blogs instead.
I’m not sure what can be done about those few commenters who seem to ruin it for the rest of us but I’ll continue to pray for peace in all our hearts.
Posted by StephC on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 12:16 PM (EDT):
Here’s a great prayer for online discussions, and in real life, too!
Holy Spirit, soul of my soul, enlighten me, guard me, strengthen me.
Help me to do your will. Amen.
Then ask:
“Does something need to be said?”
“Does something need to be said right *now*?”
“Am *I* the right person to say it?”
“How shall I say it best (most charitably, clearly)?”
One thing I love about the Catholic blogosphere is coming to the very clear understanding that there are so very many *personal*preferences* among faithful Catholics.
I firmly believe that many of the “hot topics” that come to mind often stem from the innocent statement of a personal preference that gets magnified into a misunderstanding about Church teaching.
I also firmly believe, and tease most lovingly: F&FL; has the most awkward website (structurally) for commenting, keeping track of replies, and in general establishing a community for discussion! 
Heaven help the folks on “page 2” of comments! Ach, well, it is what it is & we work with it, no? But I do believe it factors in.
Posted by Monica (momof2) on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 12:28 PM (EDT):
In my writing style I try to leave emotion out, both positive or negative. I don’t (usually) get angry but I also don’t get warm and fuzzy. I try to keep things as cut and dry as possible. I know this is hard for people to do. People are emotional beings. But it just takes a little extra effort to exorcise loaded words before hitting “send”. Maybe it is a little easier for me to recognize loaded words and a heated tone since I worked in journalism. But even doing our best sometimes people are going to be offended. That can’t always be helped. (Some people, I have found, even take a matter-of-fact, bland tone as insulting and negative - go figure). So along with trying to take out the emotion in our posts we should also try to give people the benefit of the doubt and not take things personally. I am not saying I am perfect. I have definitely slipped up and allowed emotion to slip in my posts when I was in a hurry. So a good reminder from Danielle for more viligence in how we write and how to take what has been written.
Posted by Laura on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 1:12 PM (EDT):
One thing your bloggers might want to think about, Danielle, is maintaining a good balance between posts designed to elicit discussion and stand-alone pieces for which reading the comments is just a bonus. I come here primarily to read the perspectives of the bloggers and only occasionally get into the comments.
The recent yoga post is a great example of a stand-alone piece that I enjoyed. I skipped the comments because I thought they would make me crazy. (And, honestly, I think the fact that I am so frequently bugged by the comments often says as much about me as it does the commenter.) But—I was glad to have visited the F&F site because the piece itself was great. If it had been a “what do you think about Catholics doing yoga” piece, I wouldn’t even have clicked through.
That’s not to say that the discussion-oriented posts don’t have a place—of course they do. But I think F&F is most effective when it offers both stand-alone content/blogger perspectives for readers like me AND a discussion forum for readers that enjoy it. An eye toward balancing the two would be great.
Posted by middleagedmomma on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 1:34 PM (EDT):
Does anyone ever question whether women might be just a bit too sensitive?
Men tend to have more fruitful discussions because they aren’t dancing around peoples feelings. I sometimes enjoy speaking with men even though I know they will occasionally be insensitive just because I know the discussion will be direct and to the point.
I was reading some letters written by women in Colonial America and I was struck by how blunt and direct they were. I wonder if perhaps we are just getting a bit wimpy.
It is true that women tend to use shaming language a lot and it is kind of annoying, but why should we be so easily shamed? If we believe we are right then maybe we should see these comments as an opportunity to toughen up a bit.
Posted by Beth on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 9:13 PM (EDT):
Does anyone ever question whether women might be just a bit too sensitive?
Yes, I do. And yes, we are too sensitive. Or so my husband tells me.
I agree with other commentors that said you should have thicker skin, ignore a comment that irritates you or have an open spirit. Kathy commented on a discussion she took part in here regarding whether it was ethically acceptable to conceive intentionally while on gov’t assistance during grad school. She enjoyed the fascinating discussion and the comments that were provocative and she learned from them. Someone else walked away thinking it was harsh and judgmental. There is no way you can keep everyone happy.
I read the yoga thread and did not find the comments harsh and judgmental. Others did. I just heard people expressing their strong opinions. I see this often—that women think someone is being harsh by stating their opinion which is different from theirs. (I don’t do yoga but am inclined to try it…)
My advice is to take what you hear that bothers you with a grain of salt or perhaps open your heart to a different perspective. Maybe it bothers you because God is asking you to change your heart or maybe the advice is not helpful to you at all. Ignore it like you ignore friends you find obnoxious on facebook. Everyone comes from a different background. Think about why you feel judged by a complete stranger who comments on your post and why you can’t just let go of that. There is no place in life where everyone will agree with you and think every decision you make is the right one. Why would you look for it here? We do share a common faith but there are a wide range of personal preferences within the Catholic faith. Give someone the benefit of the doubt and gather more info before you interpret their response in a tone that was not intended. If you are upset simply because their opinion is not what you came here to hear then maybe you need to consider that when you ask for advice or comment on the internet you will get a wide range of comments.
Posted by RealMom4Life on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 1:36 PM (EDT):
I love this site for the comments! It has been an incredible blessing in my life to have this forum of Catholic moms who I can get advise from. And, I also love the posts that give me something to consider or think about, something to take to prayer. I do think sometimes people can be quite judgemental (as in life) and it is unfortunate, especially when someone is obviously reaching out and needing help. We need to lift each other up rather than crush each other. For me, this site has pushed me up a lot more than it’s pulled me down.
Posted by Karen on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 1:49 PM (EDT):
For the most part F&F is probably one of the most charitable, friendly and supportive public boards out there. Even the ‘rough’ posters really aren’t that bad.
It takes a bit of a thick skin to regularly participate on a public board. Anyone reading and/or posting must understand that this is a public board reaching a broad spectrum of people. You may be reaching out to a Catholic mom ‘just like you’ or you may be reaching a woman who comes from an entirely different background, has more lax or strict views on Catholicism than you do etc….. Read and post with charity, even if you feel slighted. If you bang out an angry response, wait a few minutes…or hours before you hit send. 99% of the time, after a breather away from the computer, you will not feel the need to respond at all.
Posted by Dee on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 3:25 PM (EDT):
I am with Karen. This is a public site. Anyone can drop by and comment. I, too, think that sometimes we get incredibly sensitive. If this were a private site, perhaps comments could be controlled more. But, unless we shut down comments all together on these posts, we simply can’t get so dramatic and bothered by every negative and/or provocative comment. Ignore, or perhaps just have an open spirit.
Posted by B.A. on Thursday, Jun 23, 2011 9:54 PM (EDT):
I don’t know where to offer this idea, but I’ve been thinking about being encouraging. I have read a few comments in the last few days where women are sad to find out they’re pregnant or overwhelmed or afraid due to financial/job difficulties. I wondered if you could create a weekly or bi-weekly Guess what? I’m expecting! or something like that where women could let the Faith and Family folks know they are pregnant and we could encourage each other and be truly excited for one another. Sometimes we don’t have that for a variety of reasons and sometimes it is so beautiful just to have someone joyful at the fact that you’re having a baby. It might be possible for women who are expecting around the same time to connect and maybe it would be a simple way to be truly pro-life (as in, YEAH LIFE!) for all of us. I say “simple” because I don’t know what making up one of these posts entails. I don’t want to make more work for anyone, but I know how it feels to want people to celebrate this new life, only to hear the same dorky comments by strangers and relatives alike. “Another one? You know where those come from don’t you?” When what I really want to hear is, “That is so wonderful! Congratulations! I’ll be praying for you.” This may not be something practical—just an idea.
I’ve only been following the site for a little while and only just started commenting. I hadn’t noticed any negativity, but I guess I wasn’t reading the comments very carefully. I think it’s great that there is a place online for catholic mom’s to gather. I’m converting to Catholicism and pregnant with my first baby so I’m new to everything! My mom lives far away, sadly, so I am really grateful for the thriving online blogosphere, you guys are full of wisdom! I don’t mind if not everyone gets along perfectly. That’s just life.
Posted by Michelle Reitemeyer on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 7:21 AM (EDT):
I grew up in a family of debaters where, if you couldn’t defend your position, you were obviously wrong. The back and forth debating was “fun.” Sarcasm was rampant. It gave me tough skin. Then I met my husband who was not raised that way. He can handle a good debate, but some comments were too biting, too personal, and if he didn’t have evidence to support his position, he was made to feel stupid, belittled and beaten down. For a long time, I felt he just needed to improve his debating skills and toughen up - not take things so personally. It was quite a leap for me to realize that it was unfair for me to expect him to be the one to change in this regard and that my behavior was not very charitable. I gave up sarcasm (reserving it exclusively and in limited doses for some sarcastic friends who think it’s funny) and I taught myself to soften up when I sensed he was getting defensive. This is not being weak or yielding; it is being meek and charitable. Most women come here to learn more about their faith, to find virtual friends because nobody in their world is like them, and to be encouraged to be better people. There is a huge difference between telling a woman (as an example) that using the pill for even medical reasons is a mortal sin or suggesting that she educate herself about how the pill works. One approach is a sledgehammer that leaves no survivors and the other is an arm around the shoulder. Of course, even my comments have been seen as judgmental, no matter how friendly I try to make them…and often by others to whom the comment was not addressed. Merely saying, “I do (this activity) because…” is seen by some who do not do such activity as an indictment on their state of grace. I think we need charity in leaving comments, but also charity in reading comments and reacting to them. By asking ourselves: what is she really saying? and looking for little words like “might” and “sometimes” which soften the meaning and reading a comment several times - perhaps with some time in between, we might realize that our initial understanding of what is being said is off.
Posted by Donna L. on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 1:07 PM (EDT):
Hear, hear! Are we long-lost sisters? No?
I grew up with much of what you wrote about: having to quote a source, taking the other side of an argument just to reinforce what I want to defend, LOTS of sarcasm, etc…
I appreciate a good debate, and I have sometimes, rarely, typed in something as an “Anon” in which I believed that I saw no-one else saying or believing. Not to ruffle feathers, so much, but rather to shed light on a new angle.
My RHH had a lot of trouble with me, and at one point accused me of “verbally fileting him to the bone”. Hmm. Not very loving. So, I hung up the verbal boxing gloves, most of the time, and just let things be.
Posted by Gwen on Friday, Jun 24, 2011 5:26 PM (EDT):
I love F&F blog. I agree with all the ladies who say that the people who use blogs or any form of info on the internet need to be much more forgiving and thick skinned when it comes to reading. We often read newspaper or magazine articles that we disagree with but can’t post nasty comments. And tests have shown that we are much more likely to misjudge a writers tone than we are to judge it correctly. So you need to ASSUME THE BEST whenever you read. And we need to bit our tongue/ fingers (because we’re typing) most of the time!
Posted by Anne in NYC on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 10:26 AM (EDT):
Well, I know I’ve posted several zingers in the past, and I’m sorry that I was so harsh. I’ve also been the recipient of judgmental and often very ignorant comments, and that’s why I rarely check in these days. When I first found F&F I was so happy to find a place online where Catholic moms could engage with each other. Unfortunately whenever a group of women gets together, cattiness eventually arises—it’s Eve’s fault. Also unfortunate is the phenomenon that whenever you gather a group under the auspices of “being loyal to the magesterium” you get all kinds of people with VERY narrow definitions of what that means, and none agrees with any other. There have been countless examples of this on F&F on issues ranging from whether all women should wear skirts to yoga to homeschooling versus school-schooling to how tidy one’s house should be. (Speaking of homeschooling—the education board should probably be re-named; almost all the discussions are about homeschooling, and any comments with questions or concerns about other types of schooling are inevitably met with at least one response of “That’s why I homeschool!” It makes me feel unwelcome.)
Perhaps the moderators need to take a heavier hand. Right above the comment box it says, “Comments will be published at our discretion, and may be edited for clarity and length.” Perhaps it should read, “Comments will be published at our discretion and may be edited for CHARITY and length.”
Posted by StephC on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 11:19 AM (EDT):
Anne, for whatever it’s worth (and it’s not meant to be flattering, just speaking from the heart, here) if I happen to see your name on the right-side post “preview,” I usually click on the link to read what you have to say! You’re missed. Hope you and your boys are well.
Posted by Alice on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 1:28 PM (EDT):
I miss you Anne. Like StephC, I always click when I see your name in the side bar.
I wish there were different days for homeschool and non-homeschool questions. I was homeschooled and I’m still dealing with the emotional scars, so I have to gauge my mental health before looking at the Friday Coffee Talks. It’s a lot more open minded than it could be, though.
Posted by Beth on Saturday, Jun 25, 2011 2:15 PM (EDT):
“Also unfortunate is the phenomenon that whenever you gather a group under the auspices of “being loyal to the magisterium” you get all kinds of people with VERY narrow definitions of what that means, and none agrees with any other.”
It is interesting to me how that term is used in the Church, in blogs and in Catholic life in general and exactly what that means. I find it is often used as a gateway to find someone Catholic or not based on how narrow you define the term. To exclude them from your circle of truth.
What is discussed here I experience in real life in my parish community with similiar discussions sometimes quite lively. The list is long in the decisions between: public, home, private, Catholic, skirt or no skirt, veil or no veil, yoga or no yoga, large family or small family-both feeling they are persecuted, working mom or SAHM, working dad or SAHD, using NFP selfishly or not selfishly (or so some say they can determine that for someone else), communion in the hand or on the tongue and what it means to be truely open to life..and gosh the list goes on. Who is really the holiest and what are we looking for?
I’ve grown in my ability to love, welcome and be part of the lives of others who do not hold my views on personal preferences—which I consider the list above to be just that. I’ve found God very present in the lifes of some of those I have judged. I’ve found some do not want to be around anyone outside of their “zone” ever tightening their grip on the views they hold. A christian community is a place where these things can be discussed and discussed passionately. I’ve changed my mind on some things over the years. My goal is always to live the way God intends me and the way I live now is very different than what I thought was holiness years ago.
Anne, I wanted to say that I remember your posts and I enjoyed them thoroughly. Your views are important and we all have something to learn from them. Oh and those public school comments—just don’t take them personally. Most here are much more conservative and traditional that I am but being Catholic I believe there is a wider net and we all have the same goals—knowing and loving God.
Posted by Claire on Monday, Jun 27, 2011 2:41 PM (EDT):
I have never participated in the education discussions because up until now it didn’t really apply to my son (due to his age). But, he’s starting preschool this fall, and I would really like to start participating. I have to say that I’m a little self-conscious about it, since I know that it’s mostly homeschoolers who post there. Not that I have anything against homeschooling. I think it’s a great thing to do, and it’s definitely my back-up option. But, since my son is an only child and we live in a really good school district, I want to at least give school (outside the home) a try, and would love to be able to come here to get some support and suggestions.
Posted by Donna L. on Monday, Jun 27, 2011 3:51 PM (EDT):
I come here for ideas from all people! I certainly have learned a lot from the public/private/home schoolers about lots of things!
We do homeschool, but I used to teach in the public school system for many years, and I know there are some amazing teachers out there. So, I am pretty sure,
{at least I hope} that you will find that this great group of people has tons of ideas!
My daughter is embarking on the “pre-school” age stuff, and I like to know what others are doing so that she doesn’t miss out on the fun, just because her older brother and sister has already passed this stage.
Thanks for talking about this
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