Thanks, darlamom. This is exactly what I was going to say to MM—this is not about right/wrong but about encouraging anyone who wonders if it’s all worth it. It is!

Rachel made the case that having a large family is “worth it”.  I am making the case that having a large family is worth it if that’s God’s will for you.  I am also making the case it is also “worth it” to have a small family if that’s what God’s will is for you.  So the deciding factor is not whether you think it’s worth it but rather what is God’s plan for your family.

Below is an excerpt from the USCCB’s website on NFP:

“...the Church encourages people to be “responsible” stewards over their fertility. In this view of “responsible parenthood” married couples carefully weigh their responsibilities to God, each other, the children they already have, and the world in which they live when making decisions about the number and spacing of children.

Responsible parenthood is lived out within the structures which God has established in human nature. The nature of sexual intercourse, which is both life-giving (pro-creative) and love-giving (unitive), reflects a Divine plan. That is why the Church teaches that couples must not actively intervene to separate their fertility from their bodily union. To do so is to show disrespect for an important gift of the Creator. “

So the ultimate criteria of having more kids or not is not whether it seems like it will be worth it, but what best reflects the Divine plan for you given your circumstances.  Just as purposely having fewer kids can be a selfish act, purposely having more kids can be too.  I know someone with 8 kids who revealed to me that she feels she just always has to have a baby in her arms; she enjoys babies and it makes her feel younger.  Meanwhile she gives very little attention to the older ones as she is overwhelmed and farms them out as much as possible to other families including my own.

Angela,
I’m the youngest of 10 and we’re now ranging in age from 43-57.  As the older ones moved out or became more busy with life outside the family my Mom instituted “family night” which was a big dinner every Thursday that everyone who could come did.  It was a good way to keep in touch without alot of pressure - if they couldn’t make it no big deal..they’d be there next week.  The elders also attended our events and we’d go to their softball games and other things.  It helped that our house was always the hang-out place as we grew up so our older siblings’ friends felt right at home there too.  As people started marrying and having families Mom adjusted some of our traditions to maintain unity while also supporting the growing families.  Our Christmas party isn’t on Christmas, it’s a few days later and we only have a big Thanksgiving every other year. Summer picnics happen a couple of times a year too.  Mom is big on the idea that once you marry you have started your own new family and that must be respected.  Another thing that helped, which I wouldn’t wish on anyone, is that our Dad died when I was just 1 yr old—it resulted in our family learning that life is a gift and so is family so we treasure it.  My Mom also made a point of expecting everyone to pitch in and help eachother when needed…but she never expected any of the kids to assume a parental role.  They’d already lost Dad, they didn’t need to lose their childhood.

Angela, I am the oldest in my family, not the youngest, but I will tell you what happened with my family - my oldest children are the same age as my youngest sisters!  So, as your older children move out, hopefully there will be nieces and nephews for your younger boys.  Yes, they will be a bit younger, but then again, siblings are never the exact same age (unless they’re twins) .  To me that’s one of the benefits of a big family - there is always someone to hang with or do stuff with.  As far as staying connected, we also do the same thing Maureen suggested - our Christmas and Thanksgiving celebrations are both held on the Sunday after the actual holiday, and everyone knows this, so everyone comes (and the in-laws appreciate it because that means they get us on the holiday itself!)  We are fortunate that almost all of us live in the same town, and no one lives more than a few hours away, so we are able to get together quite often.

Hi… just wanted to weigh in on being the caboose of a large family.  There are a lot of WONDERFUL benefits, which others have commented on, so I thought I’d mention some drawbacks in my case.  There was a five-year gap between the oldest four and the youngest two, and the oldest left for college when I was just 3.  Mom and Dad were both a little older than most of my friend’s parents, and they were pretty worn out by the time they got to my brother and me (Dad was 48 when I was born, which was a little older “back then”).  My oldest sister describes a dad who was much more energetic and interested in doing things with the kids.  Completely different from my experience.  Most of my brothers and sisters moved all over the country, and I really never got the great “big family sibling” cameraderie (sp?) that the older ones got.  Our house was also kind of tense for me when they all came in because they were really not interested in getting to do things with the family at that point—it was more about seeing their friends, and family functions were regarded as a pain, and they were all always irritated to even have to be there.

“I am saying there are some truly wonderful benefits to having a large family if that is what you are feeling called to do.”

Rachel, I agree with this.  I just wanted to clarify that it’s the “what you are called to do” part that was missing in your original post.  There are truly wonderful benefits also of having a small family, if that is what you are called to do.  I’ve been in both situations and my experience has been good with both sizes.

MM,
I am not trying to criticize or analyze, but you seem to have some angst going on. You were edgy about the first post of Rachel’s. Then you appear to have a hidden (or not) agenda with your “friend” farming her kids out to you and others, and now, Rachel offers you an olive branch and you seem to bite her hand. Be at Peace. Family, lived to the fullest in God’s plan, is a blessing. Numbers don’t make a family, small or large. And as a “old” mom with an “unexpected blessing” thrown in for good measure, I know that no matter how clearly we think we hear God’s voice or how well we plan..Living it out is hard. Small or Large. Family is hard work but can yield an abundance of joy. MM, be at Peace.

The only thing that disturbs my peace is when someone I don’t even know becomes a psychologist and says I’m not.  However, it is true that it bothers me when others imply that bigger families are better or more Catholic.  Even though I believe Rachel when she says that’s not what she meant, it can come off that way.  Remember, those with big families often complain on this forum about insensitive comments from others about the size of their family.  Well, it goes both ways.  My personal opinion is it’s just better to stay away from suggesting people should have more or less kids.  That’s between the parents and God.  As for me helping out my friend, at least the kids get some attention from me.  One of the benefits of my small family is I am able to help out others more easily.  What would be interesting is to see a post from a devout Catholic blogger on how they manage to have a happy, holy family despite having a small family.  However, this is a post I don’t think I will ever see, not because these families don’t exist, but because they’ve been cowed into silence.

Rachel put a number on it when with the “2.3” children remark.  How well do you think a post like the following would go over with the big families:

“Please consider having less than the average 2.3 kids - it’s worth it”  Even assuming the post indicated no contraception would be involved I would guess that such a suggestion wouldn’t go over too well.  And it shouldn’t go over too well because it’s just really wrong to say something like that.  Put the shoe on the other foot and look at it from the other perspective.

My comment here is based on experience on both sides of the family size equation.  I grew up the youngest of 10 and am so very thankful for that.  I’m also the Mom of two, and that many only due to the loving sacrifice of our son’s birthmom.  As we’re pursuing the adoption of another child I’m seeing some of society’s disdain for large families, ie. why would we want more when we already have a boy and girl / won’t you be shortchanging the two you already have etc….. . My experience tells me that siblings are a blessing and a means to growing in holiness.  I believe God puts each of us into families of the right size for the members of that family so they have the chance to grow in love and service to God—not that we always take advantage of the chances.
Having dealt with infertility I am sensitive to the bigger is better and thus you’re more blessed and holy the more kids you have mindset.  I don’t believe that it was part of this post but I do understand MM’s reaction to the highlighting of large families.  I believe that Rachel was simply giving encouragement to those who are called to larger families to not be cowed by other’s opinions.

MM:
SHHH. Really. You are digging a hole for yourself. You imply your service to others would not happen, or happen as easily, if your family was larger. Generosity of the heart has nothing to do with family size. Love is free and timeless. I am not trying to disturb your Peace. If we can not come together HERE to encourage each other in our Journey Home..where then CAN we go? I am sure everyone is as eager to support a loving mother such as yourself with “a small family” as we are eager to support others with a larger family. I do not want to silence you. I am simply asking you to reflect on your tone. We are One Body, I hope. +

Annaberri, MM and everyone,
I just wanted to let you know that I really liked the umbrage thing.  Also, just wanted to echo Kim’s comments to MM—please don’t leave!  Variety is the spice of life.  So is a good debate.  The problem is that we women have a tough time debating without getting carried away, and what cuts to the quick more than motherhood and families?  God bless you guys.

Kathy, thanks for posting this!  It helps to know that others have had the same experience—sort of bittersweet.  I love that you’re encouraging the attention and understanding of the older ones to the younger ones.  I’m doing that too, especially as the kids get older and not as cuddly/cute in their siblings’ eyes!

MM I hope you don’t leave!  I thought your citation was extremely valuable:  it’s true, it’s not whether you feel it’s worth it to have more kids, it’s God’s plan for you.  It depends on your circumstances and personal limitations.  The story of your friend is so telling.  I, too, have a friend with 8 childen and she loves the little ones but the older children are not doing well.  I think she is really overwhelmed and she is constantly in survival mode.

Karla, I can’t thank you enough for your profound words.  My husband and I are entering our 3rd year of infertility.  We have wanted kids from the very beginning and our hearts have been broken.  The hardest times are the pregnancy announcements from our large family friends…we share their joy that #8 is on the way but also are reminded of our sorrow to not even have #1 on the way in our family.  I never thought about a circumstance as a cross for one and not for another.  Thanks for making me think!!  If there’s one thing infertility has taught me: each child is a gift, whether you have 1 or 19!

Karla,
Thank you you said exactly what I wanted to say and 10x’s better. Thank you

Thanks for all your posts on this topic… helpful and insightful.

Kim, my heart goes out to you and others in your situation ... Like I said in my post above, I “interviewed” many teens and young adults about their experiences in their families and I really tried to take to heart all that they said.  I would agree that life in a big family is not always rosy.  However, I’d say that’s true of being in a small family too because uninvolved, apathetic, abusive moms exist there too.

My best friend in all the world was born to teen parents (15 and 16yo) who married because of the pregnancy and stayed together because of the mortgage.  She was not wanted at all but was born several months before abortion was legal.  Her father was an abusive alcoholic; her mom very open about wishing abortion had been legal.  My friend has a serious hearing loss and a vision loss on top of all that.  The three children in her family or origin were all accidents when birth control failed.  She has non-existent relationships with them and doesn’t fit in with her family of origin really at all.

Despite all that, she is one of the most amazing people I’ve ever met.  She is a loyal friend, amazing mother, devoted wife.  She just gave birth to her 8th child (7 living children, 1 stillborn baby).  Her kids are all amazing children.  And the miracle is that my friend’s parents are finally waking up and becoming involved grandparents (even though they still have no real relationship with my friend).  The world would be a dimmer place without her. 

I don’t say any of this to advocate that everyone everywhere should rush out to have children as often as possible.  I’m just saying that every life has dignity and worth no matter what kind of family they come from.  Yes, there are some large families where the parents are neglectful or abusive and the sibling relationships never form (same is true in some small families).  So I just wanted to say that having a big family (or any size family at all) doesn’t always have to be done in ideal circumstances.  God still loves each and every one of those kids intensely and each one of them has the potential to really turn their lives around.

The family mentioned above several posts where the mom loves having a baby around and ignores the older kids (paraphrasing there) doesn’t have to be a tragedy.  Those kids will have struggles, certainly.  I don’t mean to minimize that.  But they also have the opportunity and gift of life itself.  I think it’s easy to stand outside someone else’s family and judge whether they “should” or “should not” be having children.  Sometimes we use that to justify our own choices.  “Well, I’m having a small family because I don’t want to be like *her*” or “I’m having a big family because I don’t want to be like *them*”.  Instead, we should be looking deeper than the number of children and looking deep inside ourselves to find what we can change there and how we ourselves can heal and grow.  Then we can consider whether we are being called to be open to life or to periodic abstinence and how we can be open to the life we have already been blessed with.  We can also give the wonderful gift of reaching out to these kids we see in other families who are struggling.  That is a beautiful gift.

We have too much of a vendor mentality in our society, assuming that if we want a baby we will just get one and if we don’t no biggie we just won’t.  So when we look from the outside at another family, it’s easy to focus on the situation from that mentality.  But that leaves out one major ingredient.  God.  How do we deal with the fact that he is blessing unmarried teens or overwhelmed moms with another baby while others who desperately want children are left with empty arms?  While we are co-creators, the decision for creation ultimately lies in God’s hands.  It’s beautiful to be open to life and it’s beautiful to practice periodic abstinence ... no matter what the outcome of either action on our part is (whether a baby is conceived or not in either case because both happens).  We still get grace from each of these courses of action (sadly artificial birth control does not bring grace with it).

God does sometimes send babies into an impossible situation.  And it’s really hard to understand the suffering some of these dear babies are sent into.  I tell my kids *every* baby is a gift, *always* no matter what the circumstances of the conception were.  Every baby is a call to hope and a call to holiness.  The tragedy is not that someone conceived a baby, the tragedy is when that person isn’t open to the grace and healing of God.  Another sad state in our society currently is the negative view of adoption by so many young unmarrieds, but that is another post entirely.

Anyway, this wasn’t just about your post, Kim.  But I wanted to say specifically to you and to so many others who have been in your position that I am so sorry, so deeply sorry that your parents never woke up, that they never saw the beauty God created in you.  You deserved way better than that.  Our human parents have great failings and I am included in that category now as a mother myself.  Some of us have greater failings than others, but each of us will have to stand before God someday and face the pain our poor actions have caused.  I hope that you and others in this position can see that despite the ignorance and brokenness of your family of origin that you are valuable.  Perhaps you don’t need to hear this.  I don’t mean to be overbearing or nosy or anything like that.  I want you to know I’m really glad you spoke up.  Because I hope this leads all of us to remember no matter what our family size that we have the potential to deeply wound our children.  This is a mighty privilege and a huge responsibility we have been given.  It’s too easy sometimes to take this lightly.  On the flip side, none of us can be perfect so we can’t be beating ourselves up all the time for our mistakes.  Just look around and listen ... that’s what I really encourage moms to do.  Listen to the kids you have contact with, far beyond your own.  Talk to young adults.  Find out what makes a family strong and what wounds everyone and try your best.  Healing can happen, God is always there.

KarlaW, your reply to my post is truly lovely. I love what you said, “Every baby is a call to hope and holiness.”  So true.  You brought out a few points that were needed in my original post.  Even children born into impossible situations are of course a gift from God and can go on to live extraordinary lives. 

I have come to terms with what happened in my family of origin but it’s still painful of course. I think my experience helped me to identify with what MM was saying.  I needed to say something to support MM.  One commentator criticized her for talking about responsibility -MM said that we are called to responsible fertility—the commentator said we get enough advice like that from Planned Parenthood. I’m sorry, but that was just rude. In fact, our Holy Church teaches us about responsible fertility.  In Gaudim et Spes we read “While a child is a great blessing, it is sometimes very important for parents to give careful thought to the size of their families. Husband and wife will thoroughly take into account both their own welfare and that of their children, those already born and those which may be foreseen.  For ths accounting they will reckon with both the material and the spiritual conditions of the times as well as their state of life.” No. 50. Whether or not to bring a new baby into your family isn’t a gut decision and cannot be taken lightly—that accounting must be done.  The article ended with “If you are on the fence about having another baby, I say go for it.”  But I say NO, don’t go for it.  I say get on your knees, and begin to do that accounting mentioned in Gaudium et Spes. 

I do think we live in a culture that discourages large families, and the author of the article was just trying to be a small voice for those with large families.  And I also think that when we do that accounting mentioned in Gaudium et Spes, it can be an opportunity to confront our weaknesses and limitations, and to hand them over to God.  God is not limited by our limitations.  So if we feel overwhelmed with two children but hope for more children, it is an opportunity for growth, not necessarily a sign that God doesn’t want to bless us with more little ones.

For the record, I have three children and I’m pregnant with my fourth.  I plan to continue welcoming children into the world if that is God’s calling for me.